Donny on "anti-Mormon" stories

[_Darth J]

Donny did a good job.

......of obfuscation.

Of course, his answer was not comprehensive but Joseph did have a problem with silver mine digging and this was the cause of the trial of 1826. What else should be said to a 13 year old girl?

Naturally, it would not occur to you that the truth should be said to a 13-year old girl. You're so focused on being a mindless cheerleader for the Church that you can't even recognize how you're contradicting yourself. The legal proceeding in 1826 against Joseph Smith happened because Joseph Smith claimed that he could use his peep stone to find the silver at issue for Josiah Stowell. Joseph Smith was the cause of Joseph Smith's problem. Donny Osmond left out this central detail of the episode and made it seem as if some third party conducted the "survey" to find silver. You don't get to acknowledge that Joseph Smith was brought into court for being a glass-looker, but then say Donny Osmond did a "good job" by decidedly leaving out the very facts that are troubling to anyone who doesn't like the idea that Joseph Smith made no distinction between his fraudulent methods for claiming to see buried treasure and his method of allegedly translating the golden plates.

Oh, and that Joseph Smith lied to get money, but we're supposed to take his word for it that the Creator of the Universe told him to start a new church. There's that minor inference to be had from the episode, too.

The 'girl' is the fish. I don't believe that she is 13. It is too 'conventional' and follows a standard storyline.

Yeah, people who speak English as their native language are aware that in the phrase "I smell a rat," the rat refers to a duplicitous person. Explaining what the "fish" means does not in any way address your bizarre portmanteau of "I smell a rat" and "Something's fishy."

Thanks for the new board meme, though.

[_why me]

Naturally, it would not occur to you that the truth should be said to a 13-year old girl. You're so focused on being a mindless cheerleader for the Church that you can't even recognize how you're contradicting yourself. The legal proceeding in 1826 against Joseph Smith happened because Joseph Smith claimed that he could use his peep stone to find the silver at issue for Josiah Stowell. Joseph Smith was the cause of Joseph Smith's problem. Donny Osmond left out this central detail of the episode and made it seem as if some third party conducted the "survey" to find silver. You don't get to acknowledge that Joseph Smith was brought into court for being a glass-looker, but then say Donny Osmond did a "good job" by decidedly leaving out the very facts that are troubling to anyone who doesn't like the idea that Joseph Smith made no distinction between his fraudulent methods for claiming to see buried treasure and his method of allegedly translating the golden plates.

Oh, and that Joseph Smith lied to get money, but we're supposed to take his word for it that the Creator of the Universe told him to start a new church. There's that minor inference to be had from the episode, too.

.

Here is the deal: it would not matter what donny wrote, you and the others would have found something to whine about. And that is the way it is.

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/182 ... facts.html

We can debate until our faces turn blue but....with many of the 'facts' we can only make assumptions.

[_Darth J]

Here is the deal: it would not matter what donny wrote, you and the others would have found something to whine about. And that is the way it is.

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/182 ... facts.html

We can debate until our faces turn blue but....with many of the 'facts' we can only make assumptions.

YOU damned ADMITTED THAT JOSEPH SMITH WAS BROUGHT INTO COURT FOR CLAIMING TO USE HIS PEEP STONE TO FIND SILVER FOR JOSIAH STOWELL.

[_why me]

Yeah, people who speak English as their native language are aware that in the phrase "I smell a rat," the rat refers to a duplicitous person. Explaining what the "fish" means does not in any way address your bizarre portmanteau of "I smell a rat" and "Something's fishy."

Thanks for the new board meme, though.

I am unique. I smell a fish means: Something stinks, like this girl who claims to be 13 with the same old platitudes of a seasoned critic.

[_Darth J]

Here is the deal: it would not matter what donny wrote, you and the others would have found something to whine about. And that is the way it is.

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/182 ... facts.html

We can debate until our faces turn blue but....with many of the 'facts' we can only make assumptions.

I'm not surprised you put "facts" in scare quotes.

From the website to which you linked:

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/182 ... Smith.html

An account from

Joseph Smith and His Progenitors
by Lucy Mack Smith

A short time before the house was completed, a man by the name of Josiah Stoal, came from Chenango County, New York, with the view of getting Joseph to assist him in digging for a silver mine. He came for Joseph on account of having heard that he possessed certain keys, by which he could discern things invisible to the natural eye.
Joseph endeavored to divert him from his vain pursuit, but he was inflexible in his purpose, and offered high wages to those who would dig for him, in search of said mine, and still insisted upon having Joseph to work for him. Accordingly, Joseph and several others returned with him and commenced digging. After laboring for the old gnetleman about a month, wihtout success, Joseph prevailed upon him to cease his operations; and it was from this circumstance of having worked by the month, at digging for a silver mine, that the very prevalent story arose of Joseph's being a money-digger.

During the time that I was thus employed, I was put to board with a Mr. Isaac Hale, of that place; it was there I first saw my wife (his daughter), Emma Hale. On the 18th of January, 1827, we were married, while I was yet employed in the service of Mr. Stoal. (p. 102-103)

So according to Lucy Mack Smith's pro-Joseph account, Joseph Smith led Josiah Stowell to believe he (Joseph) could use his peep stone to see hidden things, Joseph tried to talk Stowell out of this treasure hunt, but because Stowell was paying a lot of money, JOSEPH WENT ALONG WITH IT ANYWAY.

And by the way, nice defense on your website implying that Joseph Smith was innocent because he really could use his magic rock to find buried treasure.

If Joseph actually did possess the ability as the witnesses testified would he be judged guilty of glass looking? Yes. But wouldn't that also mean that he was innocent of deception and the reason the law was created?

That's super. "The Church is true because folk magic is real."

[_Darth J]

Yeah, people who speak English as their native language are aware that in the phrase "I smell a rat," the rat refers to a duplicitous person. Explaining what the "fish" means does not in any way address your bizarre portmanteau of "I smell a rat" and "Something's fishy."

Thanks for the new board meme, though.

I am unique. I smell a fish means: Something stinks, like this girl who claims to be 13 with the same old platitudes of a seasoned critic.

That would be "Something's fishy."

You are right to be suspicious, though. Teenage girls are pretty gullible. Why, some of them will even become the plural wife of an adult man because he tells them their families will get into heaven if they go along with it.

[_why me]

Here is the deal: it would not matter what donny wrote, you and the others would have found something to whine about. And that is the way it is.

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/182 ... facts.html

We can debate until our faces turn blue but....with many of the 'facts' we can only make assumptions.

YOU f*****g ADMITTED THAT JOSEPH SMITH WAS BROUGHT INTO COURT FOR CLAIMING TO USE HIS PEEP STONE TO FIND SILVER FOR JOSIAH STOWELL.

Well...okay...so?

[_why me]

That's super. "The Church is true because folk magic is real."

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/L ... king_trial

I am sure that Donny should have been much more specific and covered all the sides and hypotheticals for the 13 year old girl. And in the end, reach a conclusion that you would have disagreed with anyway.

[_Chap]

....

It's okay to call a Mormon a "hilarious moron...fricken stupid...lying for the Lord"..and just "plain dumb"?

....

I suppose that the religion is pretty irrelevant. What would qualify one for the epithets would be that one was a 'hilarious moron', and so on. If you are those things, but you also happen to be Mormon, why should you be let off? And guess what? This is a board dedicated to discussing Mormonism. So it is very likely that any 'hilarious morons' (and so on) discussed here will be Mormons. What's the problem?

There are no doubt some people who are nice enough never to call people such things, however much they may deserve it of course. I am that sure RayA is one of those.

To which RayA responded:

I suppose that the religion is pretty irrelevant...This is a board dedicated to discussing Mormonism.

Ironically, I think you hit the nail on the head.

You mean:

1. When Mormons act stupid, it's OK to say they are stupid, because they are stupid, not because they are Mormon.

2. Because this board is about Mormonism, quite a lot of people mentioned here will be Mormons.

3. So quite a lot of people who are identified on this board as stupid will be Mormons (basically, because why would we spend a lot of time talking about, say, stupid 7th-day Adventists?).

4. But (to repeat) the point in (1) you don't qualify to be called stupid just by being Mormon.

I am glad RayA gets that point. I do not say that ironically, of course.

[_why me]

Letter from Josiah Stowell, Jr. to John S. Fullmer



Letter from Josiah Stowell Jr. to John S. Fullmer

Chemung Feb 17th 1843

Mr J S Fullmer

I rec[eive]d yours of the 10 Feb on the 14th and have binn so busy that I Could not answer it until now & now I will as near as I can at this time you will know tis a Perplixing time for business men & my mind is fully Engaged in my business on ac[coun]t of the great derangement of the currency[.] I will give you a short history of what I know about Joseph Smith Jr. I have binn Intemetely acquainted with him about a years he then was about 20 years old or there about. I also went to school with him one winter[.]" he was a fine likely young man & at that time did not Profess religion he was not a Profain man although I did onc[e] in a while hear him swair. He never gambled to my knowledge I do not believe he ever did. I well know he was no Hoars Jocky for he was no judge of Hoarses I sold him one[.] that is all I ever knowd he dealt in the kind[.] I never new him to git drunk. I believe he would now and then take a glass, He never Pretended to Play the Slight of hand nor Black leg. It was fashionable at that time to drink Liquor. I do not Believe in any religion & there fore am friendly to all. I Believe that there is a heaven & hell & those that do not right here through there lives will be damned but still I believe I do right myself I State this for facts that any thing from what I have said about Joseph Smith that is wors than I say is fals & untru [end of first page] I am [a]fraid you Cannot read what I have wrote my pen is Poor I am in a glassy & tired after doing a hard days work



I am yours truly

Josiah Stowell



I now write you for my father he says what I have wrote you is true & he has been acquainted with him 6 years & he never knew anything of him but that was right als[o] know him to be a Seer & a Phrophet & Believe the Book of Mormon to be str-ue true & all these Stories is fals & untue that is told about Joseph Smith[.] Im yours truly & Reply[,] you Brother in the Churgh of Latter day Saints

Josiah Stowell

By J Stowell, Jr.

http://winmillfamily.org/Josiah_Stowell_Letters.htm

What is the problem? I see no problem.