December Ensign on tithing

[_DarkHelmet]

The good news about this story is it is most likely fictional. It's also nice to see the church has toned down the miracles of tithing. I expected the family to be visited by a stranger (one of the three nephites perhaps) who gives them a pile of cash, or have the guy discover gold on his property, or something stupid like that. This family is still barely scraping by and struggling to eat, but since they most likely don't exist, we don't need to worry about them.

[_harmony]

I would have no problem paying tithing, if I knew the tithes were being used to build the kingdom of God, not the kingdom of men.

As it is, I had the yearly discussion with my DH last week, when he asked me what day I wanted to do tithing settlement.

[_Fence Sitter]

I would have no problem paying tithing, if I knew the tithes were being used to build the kingdom of God, not the kingdom of men.

As it is, I had the yearly discussion with my DH last week, when he asked me what day I wanted to do tithing settlement.

"The 30th of Feb works for me."

[_Gadianton]

I would have no problem paying tithing, if I knew the tithes were being used to build the kingdom of God, not the kingdom of men.

One option is that you could request your Bishop to bear his testimony of the genetically altered fish at City Creek. You could tell him that if he can look you straight in the eye and bear solemn witness that these fish were ordained by God to swim in the artificial biosphere of City Creek, with clarity and conviction and no ambiguous wording or umbrella clauses, then you will begin to pay tithing. That might mean he needs to first research the matter, study it out in his mind, and then approach the Lord about it. If he can get a testimony of these fish and bear it, I think that would go a long way to prove that he is at least not asking you to do something that he doesn't have a complete conviction of for himself.

[_Tchild]

I would have no problem paying tithing, if I knew the tithes were being used to build the kingdom of God, not the kingdom of men.

What of the kingdom of God requires money? If the Kingdom of God is within, as Jesus stated, money is of no use in discovering it.

What Jesus taught is free and available for all people, in all places and at all times.

[_harmony]

What of the kingdom of God requires money? If the Kingdom of God is within, as Jesus stated, money is of no use in discovering it.

What Jesus taught is free and available for all people, in all places and at all times.

Yes, but we need buildings and janitors... oh wait, we don't need janitors, but we need more and more buildings. And temples, we need temples, and janitors... oh, wait, we don't need janitors for those either.

We need hymnals, and scriptures, and pictures, and family history libraries, and ... and...

Hmmmm... we sure as heck don't need to pay anyone a salary/stipend (unless it's janitors, but we've already dispensed with those). Or build malls. Or support businesses. Or build huge edifices as gifts to SLC residents. Or support elitest higher education. Or trout... we definitely do not need trout.

[_Tchild]

we definitely do not need trout.

Probably the most useful "thing" found at City Creek Center.



Behold, the Mormon kingdom of God!

[_Fence Sitter]

I have been reading The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Heidt a book Beastie recommended as do I. I found this part, regarding the survivability of communes, very applicable to the discussions on tithing. Heidt talks about a study on two hundred 19th century communes by Richard Sosis.

Sosis found that just 6 percent of the secular communes were still functioning after twenty years, compared to 39 percent of religious communes.
What was the secret ingredient that gave religious communes a longer shelf life? Sosis quantified nearly everything he could find about life in each commune. . . He found one master variable: the number of costly sacrifices that each commune demanded from its members. It was things like giving up alcohol and tobacco, fasting for days at a time, conforming to a communal dress code or life style, or cutting ties with outsiders. For religious communes, the effect was perfectly linear: the more sacrifice a commune demanded, the longer it lasted. But Sosis was surprised to see discover that demands for sacrifice did not help secular communes. Most of them failed within eight years....

Why doesn't sacrifice strengthen secular communes? Sosis argues that rituals, laws and other constraints work best when they are sacralized. He quotes anthropologist Roy Rappaport: "To invest social conventions with sanctity is to hide their arbitrariness in a cloak of seeming necessity." But when secular organizations demand sacrifice, every member has a right to ask for a cost benefit analysis, and many refuse to do things that don't make logical sense.