Maksutov wrote:Darwin considered this quite a bit:
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With respect to the theological view of the question. This is always painful to me. I am bewildered. I had no intention to write atheistically. But I own that I cannot see as plainly as others do, and as I should wish to do, evidence of design and beneficence on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice. Not believing this, I see no necessity in the belief that the eye was expressly designed. On the other hand, I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe, and especially the nature of man, and to conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance. Not that this notion at all satisfies me. I feel most deeply that the whole subject is too profound for the human intellect. A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton. Let each man hope and believe what he can. Certainly I agree with you that my views are not at all necessarily atheistical. volume II, chapter VII: "The 'Origin of Species'", pages 311-312; letter to Asa Gray (22 May 1860)
A text like this is a valuable piece of evidence for Darwin biographers, for those interested in the history of science, and for the cultural history of the interplay between science and religion in the 19th century.
It is important to realize that from the strictly scientific point of view an opinion of this kind, whoever utters it, it is utterly without relevance - as Darwin would have been the first to concede, I suspect.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Simple enough to me: this world is virtual reality to immortals. Here we experience all manner of imperfections and weirdisms, enough to boggle. Then we leave and go back to what we do as immortals, which is to be Joyfully bored. At times it gets to be a bit much and so we engage in another trip into virtual reality, to further convince ourselves that we have Joy.
There is nothing unreal about mortal reality, it's just temporary is all. The whole process by which a virtual world of imperfections, oppositions, etc., gets created is what we have lately chosen to call micro and macro evolution. As a system for providing said-opposition, it is probably just about "perfect", don't you think?
by the way, Existence is undeniable. It is Caused. The Cause is "God". And that's all I know....
A man should never step a foot into the field, But have his weapons to hand: He knows not when he may need arms, Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38
Uncle Ed wrote:by the way, Existence is undeniable. It is Caused. The Cause is "God". And that's all I know....
"The cause is "God"....
What is your definition of "God"?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Uncle Ed wrote:by the way, Existence is undeniable. It is Caused. The Cause is "God". And that's all I know....
"The cause is "God"....
What is your definition of "God"?
The world of humans is "God" manifesting. That's already complex enough, but made up of finite things having cause and effect upon each other. The "Total of Existence Is Infinite": that is "God"....
A man should never step a foot into the field, But have his weapons to hand: He knows not when he may need arms, Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38
Uncle Ed wrote:by the way, Existence is undeniable. It is Caused. The Cause is "God". And that's all I know....
"The cause is "God"....
What is your definition of "God"?
Uncle Ed wrote:The world of humans is "God" manifesting. That's already complex enough, but made up of finite things having cause and effect upon each other. The "Total of Existence Is Infinite": that is "God"....
That doesn't sound very Mormon to me, but then what do I know?
But I thought the Mormon deity
1. Was subject to the laws of the universe and did not make those laws.
2. Did not create matter, but only 'organised'.
So the Mormon deity is certainly not the totality of existence, is he?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Uncle Ed wrote:by the way, Existence is undeniable. It is Caused. The Cause is "God". And that's all I know....
Uncle Ed wrote:The world of humans is "God" manifesting. That's already complex enough, but made up of finite things having cause and effect upon each other. The "Total of Existence Is Infinite": that is "God"....
Chap wrote:That doesn't sound very Mormon to me, but then what do I know?
But I thought the Mormon deity
1. Was subject to the laws of the universe and did not make those laws.
2. Did not create matter, but only 'organised'.
So the Mormon deity is certainly not the totality of existence, is he?
Nope. GtF is one of "usen". That's why I don't worship GtF. I try to hold the greatest concept for "God" that I can and worship that.
The closest I can get to Joseph Smith's Godhead doctrine is to assume that GtF is a manifestation as glorified man within the world of humans that "God In Total" has created. Therefore, GtF Is limited to the laws governing the world of humans, but that limitation is self-imposed....
A man should never step a foot into the field, But have his weapons to hand: He knows not when he may need arms, Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38