Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

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_Bazooka
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Bazooka »

nc47 wrote:
Bazooka wrote:Can you share with us what qualifications a worthy person might need to possess before you deem them worthy of interacting with you?


Someone with a math/science/computer science/engineering/medicine degree or minor would be nice.


Which one of those (if any) do you claim to have?
(We can't have you insisting on higher standards than you yourself meet, now can we?)
*Note: it doesn't count if you bought the qualification off the internet (like Ceeboo did).
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_Ceeboo
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey nc! :smile:

nc47 wrote:Aren't you an evangelical Christian?


Why would that matter?

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Ceeboo
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey Zoo! :smile:

Bazooka wrote:*Note: it doesn't count if you bought the qualification off the internet (like Ceeboo did).



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



Peace,
Ceeboo
_Runtu
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Runtu »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey Zoo! :smile:

Bazooka wrote:*Note: it doesn't count if you bought the qualification off the internet (like Ceeboo did).


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Peace,
Ceeboo


At least you don't have one of those pathetic humanities degrees. Excuse me while I get back in line to collect my food stamps. :)

I thought my "get one degree, get the second half off" program was a good deal. Boy, was I wrong!
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_DrW
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _DrW »

nc47,

In your response above, you neglected to point out that the the NAS statement you gave was from "Science, Evolution, and Creationism" (National Academy of Sciences and Institute of Medicine. © 2008 National Academy of Sciences.) In other words, NAS was responding to creationists and religionists.

If you actually read what was written in the statement, you will find that the portion quoted below says pretty much exactly what I wrote in my post above.

Science and religion are based on different aspects of human experience. In science, explanations must be based on evidence drawn from examining the natural world. Scientifically based observations or experiments that conflict with an explanation eventually must lead to modification or even abandonment of that explanation. Religious faith, in contrast, does not depend only on empirical evidence, is not necessarily modified in the face of conflicting evidence, and typically involves supernatural forces or entities. Because they are not a part of nature, supernatural entities cannot be investigated by science.


The following part of the NAS statement you quoted is a version of the (now discredited) non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) argument championed by Stephen J. Gould.

In this sense, science and religion are separate and address aspects of human understanding in different ways. Attempts to pit science and religion against each other create controversy where none needs to exist.


Non-overlappimg magisteria has been pretty much discredited by any number of scientists, including Richard Dawkins, who explains the problems with NOMA. He points out, for example, that religion does not, and cannot, be divorced from scientific matters or the material world.

Richard Dawkins wrote: "It is completely unrealistic to claim, as Gould and many others do, that religion keeps itself away from science's turf, restricting itself to morals and values. A universe with a supernatural presence would be a fundamentally and qualitatively different kind of universe from one without. The difference is, inescapably, a scientific difference. Religions make existence claims, and this means scientific claims."


Dawkins goes on to point out that claiming that these two magisteria do not overlap..." does not consider the claims of many religions upon material reality, such as miracles or prayer."

In other words, if one is going to claim non-overlapping magisteria, as the NAS essentially did in the statement you quoted (which was offered in more of a diplomatic or political context than a scientific one), then one would also have to agree that religion's claims as to creation and miracles, for example, be dropped because they overlap with science. In fact, they constitute falsifiable hypotheses. When these hypotheses are tested scientifically, they are invariably found to be -well- false.

If one is not willing to disavow creationism, miracles, etc. then one must accept that the magisteria of science and religion do, in fact, overlap. Wherever this occurs, the two come in conflict, and when they do science is shown to be the preeminent magisterium - every time.
________________________________

ETA: nc47, just saw that you did provide a link to the NAS statement you quoted, while I was writing this.
_______________________________

ETA2: Micro-resume deleted in deference to Quasi's post below.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Quasimodo
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Quasimodo »

nc47 wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...I don't care what you think about me. As soon as someone who knows something comes in, I'll have a chance to strut my stuff.


If you were truly smart, nc47, you wouldn't have said that. You sound like a freshman arguing with his professor.

There are more accomplished, intelligent people on this board than any other you may have participated in. Whatever field you think you are an expert in, I guarantee that there is someone else here that knows more than you.

Honestly, you just sound foolish.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Bazooka
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Bazooka »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey Zoo! :smile:

Bazooka wrote:*Note: it doesn't count if you bought the qualification off the internet (like Ceeboo did).



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



Peace,
Ceeboo


Sorry Ceebs, I hadn't realised you'd paid full price for that Diploma in Raccoonomics.....
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_Bazooka
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _Bazooka »

Is nc47 the periodic tables identifier for pig poop?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_DrW
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _DrW »

Bazooka wrote:
Sorry Ceebs, I hadn't realised you'd paid full price for that Diploma in Raccoonomics.....

Racoonomics??.

I though his Ceeboo's second degree was in Raccoolution. (Or was that his first degree.)
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_nc47
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Re: Des News - Believers Finding God in Science

Post by _nc47 »

The National Academy statement is not NOMA, you need to read it more carefully.

Religious faith, in contrast, does not depend only on empirical evidence, is not necessarily modified in the face of conflicting evidence, and typically involves supernatural forces or entities. Because they are not a part of nature, supernatural entities cannot be investigated by science.


It's partially-overlapping.
Richard Dawkins wrote: "It is completely unrealistic to claim, as Gould and many others do, that religion keeps itself away from science's turf, restricting itself to morals and values. A universe with a supernatural presence would be a fundamentally and qualitatively different kind of universe from one without. The difference is, inescapably, a scientific difference. Religions make existence claims, and this means scientific claims."


It's hard to know where to begin with this quote. He doesn't do his homework. Since God transcends His creation you wouldn't expect to find Him anywhere. This is as at least old as CS Lewis.

The most damning critiques of Dawkins have come from atheist intellectuals. He is trying to push atheism on the masses, so he uses buzzwords and simplistic arguments that get parroted on the internet (sometimes here).
"It is so hard to believe because it is so hard to obey." - Soren Kierkegaard
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