Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_Rosebud]

I am never going to understand why men don't get this. You are men: you must try to carefully seduce women somehow. What techniques work for you? Are those the same techniques for other men? What do you think it's like to constantly be on the receiving end of the techniques you dole out?

Like I said, he brought polygamy up very carefully and I shut him down because I'm not interested in being anyone's second wife and/or getting into a polyamorous relationship. As in he said things like, "What do you think about polygamy?" and, "Don't you think that would be kind of cool, we could be married. I could have two wives," or something like that. I don't remember the specifics and I don't know why you think that's uncommon, especially in exMormonism. I have no idea what he was experimenting with in his mind except that he did like Snuffer's nascent success (at the time) and it seemed to me like he was trying to think through how that might work for him, too. But I shut him down quickly, I wasn't interested in asking a bunch of open-ended questions about a stupid idea to find out what he thought and I was definitely not interested in building an organization like Snuffer's or being any cult leader's second wife.

I doubt John ever talked to his wife about it, but I have no real information about that.

John is after what will work for the people he can get to follow him. If he thought he could have better succeeded at doing something like what Snuffer is doing and could have gotten a few marriages out of it, he probably would have gone for it. But, like I said, I didn't sit around and dig into it because it's a shoddy idea and I was at the Open Stories Foundation because I actually wanted to help people. I believed in what John said he was doing even though it/he was a sham.

Seriously, let the drama drop. Feeding it doesn't help anyone. I looked up Kristy Money's Facebook thread and read Kate Kelly's idea to just boycott the Open Stories Foundation. I agree.

And I hope the new Open Stories Foundation board will really do something to stop JD this time. Natasha and Dan either clearly don't get it or don't want to get it.

-------> LLC <-------

Done now please.

[_Kishkumen]

Another classic Dehlin thread.

[_candygal]

Jesus...I hope JD's wife is understanding...and doesn't catch this little thread.

[_Quasimodo]

Jesus...I hope JD's wife is understanding...and doesn't catch this little thread.

I think that cat has been out of the bag for a while.

It's the original and penultimate soap opera plot. A failed affair. A woman scorned. Defenders on both sides arguing with each other. How lucky we are to see it played out on MDB.

Do you think we should ask Shades to create a Gossip Forum?

[_Kishkumen]

The thing that gets me is that this Rosebud/JD affair is pretty run-of-the-mill Mormon drama. So many ex-Mos, dissident Mos, active Mos, and fringe Mos fantasize about polygamy or other sexual experiments (wife swapping, swinging, etc.). It is a huge part of Mormon culture. And it's not just men doing the fantasizing. A favorite pastime among Mormon women is to size up men in the ward to see which guy would be the best plural marriage partner. That's why I don't think much of this entire drama. Infidelity is pretty common; Mormonism just provides a particular kind of fantasy to accompany the infidelity.

In fact, what is truly amazing here is that the big catastrophe amounted to (consensual) necking and petting between two people in a volunteer para-ecclesiastical organization. Oh, the horror! That's how we know this is a Mormon drama--only a culture in which the Miracle of Forgiveness was pounded into people's heads could this kind of minor-league indiscretion become a life-altering cataclysm of some kind for all or some of the parties involved.

[_Dr Exiled]

The thing that gets me is that this Rosebud/JD affair is pretty run-of-the-mill Mormon drama. So many ex-Mos, dissident Mos, active Mos, and fringe Mos fantasize about polygamy or other sexual experiments (wife swapping, swinging, etc.). It is a huge part of Mormon culture. And it's not just men doing the fantasizing. A favorite pastime among Mormon women is to size up men in the ward to see which guy would be the best plural marriage partner. That's why I don't think much of this entire drama. Infidelity is pretty common; Mormonism just provides a particular kind of fantasy to accompany the infidelity.

In fact, what is truly amazing here is that the big catastrophe amounted to (consensual) necking and petting between two people in a volunteer para-ecclesiastical organization. Oh, the horror! That's how we know this is a Mormon drama--only a culture in which the Miracle of Forgiveness was pounded into people's heads could this kind of minor-league indiscretion become a life-altering cataclysm of some kind for all or some of the parties involved.

One of the reasons I am glad I still don't live in SLC or Utah and don't associate much with the LDS down here in Las Vegas.

[Guest]

That's how we know this is a Mormon drama--only a culture in which the Miracle of Forgiveness was pounded into people's heads could this kind of minor-league indiscretion become a life-altering cataclysm of some kind for all or some of the parties involved.

That's a very interesting point. I've seen that in religions other than Mormonism. If the desire becomes great enough, there is always the get-out-of-jail card of contrition and forgiveness.

[_Rosebud]

It might have been nothing more than a silly incident if both parties had equal power, if one of the parties hadn't intentionally broadcast his intentions to help to vulnerable populations and then taken advantage of that, if both people walked away with their jobs, if one party weren't telling lies to the public and church leaders, if one party weren't banned, if one party didn't use it to change the course of a movement, etc.

Don't make less of what JD did than it deserves. Very insulting. The sex part... meh. Not much there. The context was and is very serious. It's a dangerous situation all around.

[_Kishkumen]

That's a very interesting point. I've seen that in other religions other than Mormonism. If the desire becomes great enough, there is always the get-out-of-jail card of contrition and forgiveness.

Sure. But the polygamy fantasy coupled with the extreme demands for purity is an interesting tension/contradiction.

[_Rosebud]

Oh... and the $$$$$ and legalities that became part of the mess... on several fronts... that's no small number. Mormons aren't the only ones who take these things seriously. Bad news.

But omg, I wish I could adequately share the response the never-Mos who know what happened in New Hampshire think of the whole incident. Maybe at some point I'll be able to get that across.... we'll see.