Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

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MG 2.0
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 10:11 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 7:53 pm
Were there inserts and changes to Doctrine and Covenants related to "Shinehah" that were added later for clarity or code purposes, not necessarily part of the original dictation? In Sections 86,96, and 98 of the D&C. Did Joseph Smith's use of "Shinehah" as a code word predate or overlap with his translation work on the papyri containing the Book of Abraham? Is it possible that Joseph either borrowed the term from the emerging translation found in Abraham 3 and we find it used as a code word in the D&C?
That's a very good question! I understand the code names were additions added after the fact, thus they overlapped the original penned revelations. The 1835 D&C was first published in August and the papyrus was purchased in June. That's razor sharp closeness. I believe the code names were a bunch of BS that Smith made up to meet his current needs. Shinehah was BS.

Wouldn't you agree, MG?

;)
So there was a possible overlap.

Regards,
MG
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Bret Ripley
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Bret Ripley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 7:53 pm
Bret Ripley wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 7:37 pm
Are you sure you want to stand by your characterization of this as a 'bullseye'?
Were there inserts and changes to Doctrine and Covenants related to "Shinehah" that were added later for clarity or code purposes, not necessarily part of the original dictation? In Sections 86,96, and 98 of the D&C. Did Joseph Smith's use of "Shinehah" as a code word predate or overlap with his translation work on the papyri containing the Book of Abraham? Is it possible that Joseph either borrowed the term from the emerging translation found in Abraham 3 and we find it used as a code word in the D&C?

The ancient Egyptian word š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ (Shinehah) is attested to as a term linked to the sun or solar concepts.
As the article you linked to concluded, š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ did not mean 'the sun' per se. Since my question was whether you still stand by the characterization of 'Shinehah' as a bullseye, it appears that you do not: unless additional evidence comes to light, it falls short of a bullseye. Fair enough?
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Shulem
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 10:58 pm
So there was a possible overlap.
Yes, I do believe so.

Do you suppose that saves the Book of Abraham?

;)
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by MG 2.0 »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:08 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 7:53 pm


Were there inserts and changes to Doctrine and Covenants related to "Shinehah" that were added later for clarity or code purposes, not necessarily part of the original dictation? In Sections 86,96, and 98 of the D&C. Did Joseph Smith's use of "Shinehah" as a code word predate or overlap with his translation work on the papyri containing the Book of Abraham? Is it possible that Joseph either borrowed the term from the emerging translation found in Abraham 3 and we find it used as a code word in the D&C?

The ancient Egyptian word š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ (Shinehah) is attested to as a term linked to the sun or solar concepts.
As the article you linked to concluded, š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ did not mean 'the sun' per se. Since my question was whether you still stand by the characterization of 'Shinehah' as a bullseye, it appears that you do not: unless additional evidence comes to light, it falls short of a bullseye. Fair enough?
That's why I said "solar concepts".

Regards,
MG
Philo Sofee
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 6:22 pm
Rivendale wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 5:51 pm
Dan can speak for himself but I think he explained it here.
The problem seems to be that Vogel does not directly engage with the significance of Shinehah as a genuine Egyptian word for the sun recognized by Egyptologists.

Regards,
MG
Robert Ritner addressed this directly and refuted it in his book.
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Marcus »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 9:29 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 9:21 pm
Dance dance dance.
How hardly a rebuttal on your part. I take this as an admission that you know my dancing is spot on.
Also, a blatant avoidance of answering the question:

"Attested to by who?"
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:16 pm
Bret Ripley wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:08 pm
As the article you linked to concluded, š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ did not mean 'the sun' per se. Since my question was whether you still stand by the characterization of 'Shinehah' as a bullseye, it appears that you do not: unless additional evidence comes to light, it falls short of a bullseye. Fair enough?
That's why I said "solar concepts".

Regards,
MG
Make it broad enough and it supports Joseph Smith. He specifically narrowed it to the sun however. Robert Ritner showed it is not so in his interviews with John Dehlin.
MG 2.0
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:09 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 10:58 pm
So there was a possible overlap.
Yes, I do believe so.

Do you suppose that saves the Book of Abraham?

;)
I'd say it's another interesting somewhat hidden "easter egg" that some might overlook. Shinehah, in the Pyramid texts. Abraham has access. Joseph uses it to describe concepts revolving with the sun. Coincidence? Maybe. It's another one of those things, however, that Joseph just happened to be pretty much on target with.

Of course then you have the issues such as the ones you like to bring up. Opposition in all things. ;) Everywhere!

Philo, we've got to have a Ritner on staff too. Choices, choices.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shulem
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:16 pm
Bret Ripley wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:08 pm
As the article you linked to concluded, š(ỉ)-n-ḫꜣ did not mean 'the sun' per se. Since my question was whether you still stand by the characterization of 'Shinehah' as a bullseye, it appears that you do not: unless additional evidence comes to light, it falls short of a bullseye. Fair enough?
That's why I said "solar concepts".
How about lunar & star concepts for Olea & Kokob? Are they gay boys?

Dance for me, MG. I want to see what u got. Show me!

I'll be the judge! Drop ur Book of Abraham drawers and show us what u got!

:lol:
MG 2.0
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Re: Vogel Schools Jacob Hansen on Book of Abraham

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:28 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:16 pm
That's why I said "solar concepts".
How about lunar & star concepts for Olea & Kokob? Are they gay boys?

Dance for me, MG. I want to see what u got. Show me!

I'll be the judge! Drop ur Book of Abraham drawers and show us what u got!

:lol:
I think I'm done for now. No thanks.

Regards,
MG
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