Since he has scare quoted "blame", I think what MG is pointing out is that you should credit his god, not blame him.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:53 pmEither God is to blame for instigating the racist policy, or God is to blame for allowing His Prophets to lead the Church astray for a hundred years. Which one?
DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
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MG 2.0
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
Neither.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:53 pmEither God is to blame for instigating the racist policy, or God is to blame for allowing His Prophets to lead the Church astray for a hundred years. Which one?
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MG
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Marcus
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
What a nonsensical position to take.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:48 pmOf course not. I think it unwise to "blame" anything on God...I Have Questions wrote: ↑Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:27 pmHmmm, so how do we know (reliably) that God has, or hasn’t, spoken to us?
Are you putting the blame for the racist policy that kept black people from the temple and from priesthood office for a hundred years, on God?
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
Unfortunately for you there is no neither. It’s either one, or the other. There is no gap for you to hide in on this one.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 3:14 amNeither.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:53 pmEither God is to blame for instigating the racist policy, or God is to blame for allowing His Prophets to lead the Church astray for a hundred years. Which one?
Regards,
MG
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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yellowstone123
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
It's kind of interesting that the Brigham Young and Joseph Smith Jr. were both born in Vermont which banned slavery 25 years before they were born. But did Brigham Young have a sense of revulsion to slavery that Abraham Lincoln held?
Brigham Young did not take goods down the river on a raft to New Orleans and after unloading, watch human beings being sold. It seems like Brigham Young looked to the Old Testament for inspiration, whereas Abraham Lincoln looked to authors of the Enlightenment era. Fortunately or unfortunately they were leaders so it had consequences for innocent people later on in time.
It's interesting to compare those states that banned slavery prior to the civil war to see the dates and thoughts of others during the same time. That information is easily accessible.
Brigham Young did not take goods down the river on a raft to New Orleans and after unloading, watch human beings being sold. It seems like Brigham Young looked to the Old Testament for inspiration, whereas Abraham Lincoln looked to authors of the Enlightenment era. Fortunately or unfortunately they were leaders so it had consequences for innocent people later on in time.
It's interesting to compare those states that banned slavery prior to the civil war to see the dates and thoughts of others during the same time. That information is easily accessible.
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
From a black and white worldview that may be true for you.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:12 amUnfortunately for you there is no neither. It’s either one, or the other. There is no gap for you to hide in on this one.
Regards,
MG
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MG 2.0
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
There is no third option. Either God wanted a racist policy in place for 100 years, or He failed to prevent a racist policy being implemented for 100 years. It really is one or the other. I suppose you could go with “there is no God”.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:04 pmFrom a black and white worldview that may be true for you.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:12 amUnfortunately for you there is no neither. It’s either one, or the other. There is no gap for you to hide in on this one.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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MG 2.0
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
Again, I don't think it's a binary choice. It's not a choice of God "failing" necessarily. In fact, I can't wrap my mind around God failing at anything.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:31 pmThere is no third option. Either God wanted a racist policy in place for 100 years, or He failed to prevent a racist policy being implemented for 100 years. It really is one or the other. I suppose you could go with “there is no God”.
Regards,
MG
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I Have Questions
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Re: DCP doubles down on semantics to salvage Brigham’s racist legacy
If it’s not a binary option (it is) then what is your alternative option?MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 12, 2025 5:02 pmAgain, I don't think it's a binary choice. It's not a choice of God "failing" necessarily. In fact, I can't wrap my mind around God failing at anything.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:31 pmThere is no third option. Either God wanted a racist policy in place for 100 years, or He failed to prevent a racist policy being implemented for 100 years. It really is one or the other. I suppose you could go with “there is no God”.
Regards,
MG
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.