Merry Christmas!!

[Equality]

Oh, and also...active and believing members of the LDS church do not find themselves inebriated while doing anything.

An obvious and easily provable lie. Why do you feel the need to lie, MG? And on Christmas no less!

The notion that no active and believing members of the LDS church are ever inebriated is a real whopper. Care to retract such an embarrassing howler?

[Gadianton]

active and believing members of the LDS church do not find themselves inebriated while doing anything

It's interesting when MG chooses to get black and white on doctrine, as he's usually all about gray and perspective. Serving a mission is a matter of personal judgment. Helping the poor is a matter of judgment. But drink alcohol?

[Shulem]

Oh, and also...active and believing members of the LDS church do not find themselves inebriated while doing anything.

An obvious and easily provable lie. Why do you feel the need to lie, MG? And on Christmas no less!

The notion that no active and believing members of the LDS church are ever inebriated is a real whopper. Care to retract such an embarrassing howler?

Indeed, it was a lie on MG's part because he knows the statement is not true but he tendered it just the same. He knows that some active and believing members of the church use alcohol. The question is: Is MG one of them?

I think so.

[Shulem]

active and believing members of the LDS church do not find themselves inebriated while doing anything

It's interesting when MG chooses to get black and white on doctrine, as he's usually all about gray and perspective. Serving a mission is a matter of personal judgment. Helping the poor is a matter of judgment. But drink alcohol?

Hence the mental gymnastics and the whole purpose for why he participates on this message board. He loves to play games!

[MG 2.0]

active and believing members of the LDS church do not find themselves inebriated while doing anything

It's interesting when MG chooses to get black and white on doctrine, as he's usually all about gray and perspective. Serving a mission is a matter of personal judgment. Helping the poor is a matter of judgment. But drink alcohol?

You are treating dissimilar doctrinal questions as if they must all fall into the same “gray” or “black and white” category. Are you sure that these three issues are morally and doctrinally equivalent?

I don't think they are. Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point. Think what you will.

It's been nice to come across a few "Merry Christmas" posts! Good to see those. Christmas is alive on DiscussMormonism.

For those that didn't watch the link/video at/in the beginning post of this thread, it is really worth the watch. If for nothing else, to get a little glimpse (maybe not perfect) of what the life and times might have been like when Jesus was born. The acting is rather good even if they are not speaking English!

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

Are you sure that these three issues are morally and doctrinally equivalent?

They shouldn't even be close to doctrinally equivalent. Helping the poor and ministering to the sick and afflicted was the central part of the ministry of Jesus as it's recorded. That should be the rule that you proudly proclaim is kept 100% of the time by active Mormons everywhere, not thoroughly abstaining from alcohol, which wasn't even something that Jesus himself did, as he drank wine at the wedding of Cana.

By responding the way you did, you demonstrate what most of us know already, that your religiosity is more about superficial in-group markers rather than about loving God and loving your neighbor, the two greatest commandments.

For those that didn't watch the link/video at/in the beginning post of this thread, it is really worth the watch.

Right, let's get back to putting on the veneer of righteousness.

[Limnor]

Kish, I really enjoyed your post as it was very thought provoking.

I’d agree with the emphasis on myth and culture, especially the point that Christianity works in a Greco-Roman world because it set the stage for a message that world could understand. But I think there is room to explore how Christianity “completes” Jewish foundations as well.

Phrases like “Christ in you” don’t come from Roman thought. Those ideas are drawn from the tabernacle and temple serving as a dwelling place for God on earth. Those ideas could be seen in Roman temples as well, of course, but what Christianity does is complete the symbolism by relocating God’s presence from the tabernacle and temple into a person’s heart. I’m not sure if there is a model for that type of concept in Greek or Roman thought. Maybe stoicism?

So I think you can concede myth or allegory without surrendering truth, and acknowledge Rome without abandoning Jerusalem.

[Chap]

... not thoroughly abstaining from alcohol, which wasn't even something that Jesus himself did, as he drank wine at the wedding of Cana.

According to the story in the New Testament, he not only drank wine at he wedding, he even miraculously provided a top=quality re-supply when they ran out!

Also, from his words at the Last Supper, when he said "this is the last time I shall drink wine with you [in this world]" it is clear that, like all normal people in his time, drinking wine was a normal part of his life.

Of course, those who find it better to abstain from alcohol may have their own good reasons for doing so. But they are not entitled to condemn those who do drink alcohol for that fact alone, so long as it does not damage others.

And a happy festival to all our readers, whatever they may be celebrating.

[sock puppet]

And Happy Festivus for the rest of us.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

Yes, merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all!