KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Darth J
_Emeritus
Posts: 13392
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:16 am

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _Darth J »

sock puppet wrote:And now after those messages of diversion, back to the topic of this thread:

KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence


Before we re-rail this thread, let me just add that I really hope that Fratello Schryver proves that the Book of Abraham is true. Then we can know that The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church.

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/Legal/F ... _Emack.pdf (paragraph 9)
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _beastie »

William Schryver wrote:
In any case, beastsheba, since you’ve apparently forgotten your Bible stories, it was David, from his roof-top, observing Bathsheba "washing herself," that aroused within him the wicked desires that led to his eventual fall from grace:



Oh, for heaven's sake, I know the story of David and Bathsheba. That story has nothing to do with David and Goliath, which was the image you invoked earlier, comparing yourself to David, and Brent to Goliath. I was simply following up on your ego-filled imagination, but pointing out that, instead of a well-placed stone, you were emitting a foul stench from your slingshot by insinuating Brent had a dark secret to hide about the Hofmann affair.

Will, imagining himself to be David:
viewtopic.php?p=354200#p354200


Your age physically, but whose heart and soul are so much more nubile and so much less cankered by the unrelinquished resentments that have afflicted you for so long.


Snore.


I have defined it. Indeed, I made it perfectly clear in my FAIR conference address. Multiple times. With pronounced emphasis on each occasion.

That you and your cohorts can’t seem to comprehend these things is of no concern to me. Remember, you’re not my target audience. I am convinced that there is nothing that could open your eyes at this point. You have all, more or less without exception, gone past the point of no return. You would not believe even were one to rise from the dead before your very eyes. Your hardened apostate hearts are past feeling.



The point I was making with Wade is that even your most faithful followers apparently didn't "get" what you pronounced with emphasis on each occasion to justify your rejection of Nibley, other than the fact that there were nonEgyptian figures present. You certainly emphasized that, over and over. But now you claim it's irrelevant to your rejection of Nibley that Joseph Smith et al likely believed the figures were Egyptian, and even Wade admits to not having a reason to reject Nibley if that were the case.

The only thing that will convince me that you're not knowingly and deliberately blowing hot air, and you KNOW that your main reason to reject Nibley was that some figures weren't Egyptian, and you're now buying time to think of something else will be for you to clearly and simply state what that something "far more definitive" actually was. Apparently it's not apostasy that renders me unable to recognize it, since your lapdog Wade can't, either. So it's simply your own poor presentation... unless, of course, this is all bluster, which is what I truly believe.

by the way, I still want to know if you knew that Joseph Smith et al likely believed the Masonic characters WERE Egyptian and just neglected to mention it, or if you just didn't know.

I still want to know how you reconcile this statement of Nibley's with your theory:

It was not the habit of Joseph Smith to suppress his revelations. He made every effort to see to it that each excerpt from the book of Abraham was published to the world the moment it was presentable. "One cannot read the pages of the early periodicals of the Church," writes James R. Clark, " . . . without being impressed with the fact that to Joseph Smith, availability of the new revelations of God where people could read them and immediately profit by their instruction was more important than the technicality of having acomplete text of these ancient records at the start . . . " Hence, Clark notes, it was his custom to publish them in the form of extracts as he went along.30
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _beastie »

sock puppet wrote:
beastie wrote:
Do you have a link to the Hauglid incident

here



Ah, yes, now I remember: the thread in which Will admitted he engages in hyperbole and colorful exaggeration to get attention.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _beastie »

sock puppet wrote:And now after those messages of diversion, back to the topic of this thread:

KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence


The diversions are the only way to get Schryver to respond at all. He's always, ALWAYS, been more interested in diversions like insults than actual substance, and this, strangely, remains true even now as he's been crowned Prince of Book of Abraham apologia.

It's interesting that Will engaged in a bit of projection when he stated this on MAD:

I was being pretty cautious, by my standards.

Look, I believe in living large on message boards and writing conservatively in a formal publication. I'm of the opinion that at least occasionally indulging in the former serves quite well to weed out any egregious errors prior to setting positions in stone via the latter.

Besides, no one ever did anything of real significance by always playing it safe. I don't believe in conducting a risk/benefit analysis before every move I make.

What most people (including the man himself) fail to realize is that often the only way to flush Metcalfe out of his cave is to poke him with a stick and taunt him a little bit; or dangle in front of him something he's apt to regard as low-hanging fruit. Then and only then will he saunter forth and, just maybe, if the mood strikes him, and the provocation has been sufficient to move the blood from his brain to his fingertips, will he then give some clue, any clue, of his position on any given question. And even then, there will be sufficient ambiguity built into the language of his response that the best one can hope for is to narrow down to a logical handful of possibilities the potential interpretations of his perpetually slippery posture on the meaning and purpose of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers.


Just substitute "Metcalfe" with "Wee Willie" and truer words have never been spoken.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Paul Osborne

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Prior to the thread being rerailed and denailed I think it's fair to say that William is the biggest attention whore I've ever seen in Internet apologetics. Even bigger than me! And it takes one to know one. William is dirty, that's for sure. He knows it. Let's just keep feeding him and poking him and play with him because eventually he will alltogether crack to pieces and he will need some friends. MAD will dump his sorry ass all in good time. His liability to conservative Mormonism has cost the church quite a bundle and he is damaging the church in a tremendous way. His ass is grass.

And Beastie, you're handling yourself quite fine these days in fending off the insults. I think you know how to take care of your own. Congrats! Not even I would want to go up against you. You're hot stuff these days! Wow! I'm so proud of you.

Paul O
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _Kishkumen »

Paul Osborne wrote:Let's just keep feeding him and poking him and play with him because eventually he will alltogether crack to pieces and he will need some friends. MAD will dump his sorry ass all in good time. His liability to conservative Mormonism has cost the church quite a bundle and he is damaging the church in a tremendous way. His ass is grass.


Hey, Paul, how many months has it been since we wagered on Will's apostasy? I see he is still in the LDS Church. When will I be getting my crisp hundred-dollar bill? How many months do we have to go?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _William Schryver »

Cracker Graham:
Riddle me this Schryver, who on the planet has published more on the KEP?

Do you count the articles Metcalfe has e-published on his website?
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Just answer the question, coward.

You keep referring to Ashment's publication on the matter to be minute and insignificant.

Well, compared to whom?

Who has published more on the subject? The Church has tried to keep a lid on the subject untill Marquardt let the cat out of the bag.

Nibley's piece was strictly apologetic as a response to critics, and his speculatiions dressed up as scholarship have been shattered to pieces. Even Chris Smith pointed out that Nibley contradicted himself like a dozen times in that silly article. It was obviously just a PR piece to calm frustrated testimonies. It wasn't a scholarly analysis of the material in any sense; if anything it was dismissive.
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _William Schryver »

Do you count Metcalfe's e-published articles? He wrote a couple things concerning the KEP that he has published on the internet, but which haven't ever actually appeared "in print." In other words, what do you mean by "published"?
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: KEP Dictation Argument: The Evidence

Post by _Kevin Graham »

William Schryver wrote:Do you count Metcalfe's e-published articles? He wrote a couple things concerning the KEP that he has published on the internet, but which haven't ever actually appeared "in print." In other words, what do you mean by "published"?


I haven't "counted" anything. You are the one who keeps referring to Ashment's publication record scant. You need to put that into context by explaining who exactly has published more than Ashment?

I haven't done the math, nor have I made any definitive claims. You have, but refuse to back it up. I am saying that he very well might be the leader in writings/publications that cover the KEP while you are belittling his work as scant. So I ask you for a fourth time now, if he is not leading in publications, then who is?

It is a simple question, and all your Wade Englund maneuvers aren't going to make it go away.

The question isn't what do I count as publications, since you've already set the bar for that quite low; you're over at MADB referring to your silly FAIR conference speech a "publication" because the link has a thousand hits online!
Post Reply