Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse

[_Mary]

Doc, and there you have it. You didn't read anything I posted.

[_Mary]

I'm arguing for nuance, not black and white.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'm arguing for nuance, not black and white.

You're arguing that nonsense happened, and that Snow was kinda sorta onto something. It's BS and you know it.

- Doc

[_Mary]

I'm arguing for nuance, not black and white.

You're arguing that nonsense happened, and that Snow was kinda sorta onto something. It's ____ and you know it.

- Doc

Is this an American thing or an ex Mormon thing..because that's not what I am arguing at all.

[_Res Ipsa]

I'm suggesting that what she has to say doesn't independently verify the stories told by the children or Smith. It's really all one story, the product of intermingling the actual recollections of the kids, the mother, the grandmother, and the therapists. After 30 years of thinking about it, talking about it, writing and/or reading about it, we have the current narrative. I suspect that when it's compared with whatever contemporaneous evidence still exists, that there will be some important discrepancies. That's not due to any fault or failing of the mother. That's just what happens with human recollection over time and when one is dealing with this type of shared story.

I find it perfectly credible that the perp sexually abused his kids. I base that on what we have of the Johns Hopkins records and the testimony of the children from the second marriage. We don't have much to go on at this point, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that the abuse of the kids from the first marriage resembled the abuse of the kids from the second marriage than the story they are all telling today. But to figure that out would require going over all of the therapist's notes and reviewing recordings of the therapy sessions

Okay. That's a reasonable response, and not unusual in any claim of historic sexual abuse. The defendants barrister in the historic case for which I was a juror, argued forcibly for the same thing. It amounts to a grand conspiracy on the part of the victims and their family members to get together and get their stories straight.

That was the best argument he had. It persuaded 2 jurors, but not the remaining 10.

If this gets to court. It will be interesting.

No, I'm not arguing for a conspiracy theory at all. I'm arguing that there was so much cross communication among the kids, therapist, mother, and other adults, over a period of 30 years, that the result was a shared story that is likely a distortion of what actually happened. Had the interviews with the children been recorded, we'd have a much more accurate picture of how all these charges came to be.

[_Mary]

Rep, okay, let's take grand conspiracy out of the equation, and couch it in less intentional motives. Still, the result would be to question the reliability of the adult mother's recollection and the Jane Doe's recollections on this particular matter. [That both the Jane Doe and Mother 1 recall that the first instance of alleged abuse of Def 1 and def 2, and days later, the perpetrator, were disclosed in a home environment and not through therapy sessions with Snow.] It will be interesting to see how that point plays out in court because it is an important contradiction between what the Miles Lawyer is claiming and what the witnesses are stating.

[_Lemmie]

The whole article is worth a read.

http://www.crimejusticejournal.com IJCJ&SD20154(2): 77‐93

Dissecting Disbelief: Possible Reasons for the Denial of the Existence of Ritual Abuse in the United Kingdom

Kate Richardson:Researcher in Child Abuse and Exploitation, United Kingdom

Mary, that paper comes from an open access journal, where authors pay a fee to have their work published. There has been discussion here about the quality of such journals that gives further information, here's a post by physics guy that gives quite a bit of background:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... w#p1116318

One question I immediately had, based on your quotes, was why there was no discussion of whether actual evidence (not just existence of convictions) supported the extreme ritual abuse claims. From your quotes, the article seems to focus on just the belief or disbelief psychological constructs, not the actual existence or lack of existence of evidence.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'm arguing for nuance, not black and white.

Is this an American thing or an ex Mormon thing..because that's not what I am arguing at all.

I'm not into ipso facto and post hoc fallacies. Might be an ex-Mormon thing. I dunno.

- Doc

[_Water Dog]

So what's going on in here, 24 pages later. Have y'all come up with the plot for the next Dan Brown novel, starring Russel Nelson?

[_Mary]

That's a fair comment Lemmie. I checked the reference and looked up the Journal on line.

"Publisher: Queensland University of Technology

Country of publisher: Australia

Platform/Host/Aggregator: OJS

Date added to DOAJ: 5 Nov 2013

Record Last Updated: 20 Jul 2016

LCC Subject Category: Social Sciences: Social pathology. Social and public welfare. Criminology

Publisher's keywords: penology, human rights, green criminology, critical criminology, feminist criminology

Language of fulltext: English

Full-text formats available: PDF

It follows a blind peer review format.

I for one, love the idea of open access.