Clever wordplay to downplay priesthood sexism? ...

[_Mephitus]

Perhaps a new perspective is needed for this topic. When we look at religions that have no gender bias, we find that generally there is no segregation of duty to any one group. Sexism is basically non-existent within these cultures. One must ask, why was there a question of gender bias to begin with? Did one side feel that due to political or financial power that one side should preside or otherwise have a more than equal say within matters of either family or religious matters? The primary situation that seems to arise within Mormonism is that because one side is different than another that they are "equal, yet different" as a way of putting it. Though generally speaking, the sexes can be....shall we say stereotyped into somewhat generic gender roles. Is it fair to expect that everyone would be willing (or able to for that matter) to fulfill these rolls? The reasoning that i see seems to be "since women can bear children and men cannot, women should relish that ability to make life". So because women are the carrier of the embryo(remember, we now know that men are equaly important in the life creation process!), she is delegated to a "less than equal" position in choices of home or religious matters? What of women that are sterile? Since they are unable to mother children, would they be potential priesthood holders? And what of trans-genderd personages? there are more than a few people that are born genetically male, but with female parts. Via current standing, they would be unable to hold the priesthood. In the end, you have to ask yourself. Is the woman getting an equal say from the total picture? Does she have any say at all in any area over a priesthood holding male? Or is her role relagated to being a servant to the family and her job stems to just be a homemaker with no other choices to be made? A man can chose NOT to receive the priesthood and still raise a family. A woman never receives the option.

[_Gazelam]

Men will be resurrected as men, Women will be resurrcted as women. Gender is eternal, as are the male and female responsibilities.

Gaz

[_Coggins7]

Men will be resurrected as men, Women will be resurrcted as women. Gender is eternal, as are the male and female responsibilities.

Gaz

The problem here Gaz, is that, regardless of what the church teaches officially, and what various GAs may have taught or said off the cuff or even in an authoritative tone unofficially, most of the criticism here, and on endless threads on this very subject here and at ZLMB, do not give weight to eternal considerations but popular fashiionable concerns that date primarily from the time most of the participants were born.

That is how strictly time delimited and frog-in-a-wellish this entire thing is. Most here don't accept the divine nature of the church or the gospel it claims to represent, nor do many here accept anything of philosophical seriousness apart from the trendy pressing issues they have grown up hearing in the mainstream pop media, in movies and in popular music are what really matters.

The very worst thing modern Feminism has done is not to transfer the worst cultural and psychological attributes of men to woman, but to place the relationships between the sexes into a manichean cultural Marxist framework of oppressor vs. oppressed in which woman and men become part of lumpen masses each with group characteristcs and group interests. In this simple dualistic ideological world, as in all the others created by the cultural Left, everything gets to be seen as an ongoing struggle between one gruop of pure as driven snow victims, and one group of black as pitch victimisers. Nothing any individual says or does, or what any subset of the ideologically formatted groups can ever do changes the ideological imperative of group against group in a struggle for institutional power and equality of condition, which is always valued over quality of relationship.


Loran

[_Mister Scratch]

Men will be resurrected as men, Women will be resurrcted as women. Gender is eternal, as are the male and female responsibilities.

Gaz

The problem here Gaz, is that, regardless of what the church teaches officially, and what various GAs may have taught or said off the cuff or even in an authoritative tone unofficially, most of the criticism here, and on endless threads on this very subject here and at ZLMB, do not give weight to eternal considerations but popular fashiionable concerns that date primarily from the time most of the participants were born.

That is how strictly time delimited and frog-in-a-wellish this entire thing is. Most here don't accept the divine nature of the church or the gospel it claims to represent, nor do many here accept anything of philosophical seriousness apart from the trendy pressing issues they have grown up hearing in the mainstream pop media, in movies and in popular music are what really matters.

The very worst thing modern Feminism has done is not to transfer the worst cultural and psychological attributes of men to woman, but to place the relationships between the sexes into a manichean cultural Marxist framework of oppressor vs. oppressed in which woman and men become part of lumpen masses each with group characteristcs and group interests. In this simple dualistic ideological world, as in all the others created by the cultural Left, everything gets to be seen as an ongoing struggle between one gruop of pure as driven snow victims, and one group of black as pitch victimisers. Nothing any individual says or does, or what any subset of the ideologically formatted groups can ever do changes the ideological imperative of group against group in a struggle for institutional power and equality of condition, which is always valued over quality of relationship.


Loran

You are naïve if you think that gender has been totally stable and unchanging throughout history, in all cultures, Loran. C'mon, haven't you read Judith Butler's classic text on the subject, Gender Trouble?

[_harmony]

Nothing any individual says or does, or what any subset of the ideologically formatted groups can ever do changes the ideological imperative of group against group in a struggle for institutional power and equality of condition, which is always valued over quality of relationship.

Agreed (the world is undoubtedly going to slow down, if not stop altogether). Nothing any individual says or does is going to impact the fact that power is what drives this world. Power is what drives this church, too. We are no different from any other institution. And in this church, men hold all the power. You can't get around that no matter how you try. And until that changes, this discussion will continue unabated.

[_Pokatator]

Coggins7 wrote:

As to your idea that woman don't lead, this is utter nonesense. Woman lead all througout the church, and, truth be told, they lead the men who lead the church, from the home to the ward to the Presidency of the Church.

Hey CogLoran

This rant of yours is all about you being henpecked isn't it?

Now tell the truth.

Go ahead and admit it, you're henpecked, it's OK you'll feel better for admitting it.

The first part of recovery is admitting your problem and getting it out in the open.

Now don't weenie out on us.

[_Mephitus]

Men will be resurrected as men, Women will be resurrcted as women. Gender is eternal, as are the male and female responsibilities.

Gaz

So its the mans eternal job to run everything and make all the decisions, and the womans job to have babies? That smacks a bit of slavery to me.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

So its the mans eternal job to run everything and make all the decisions, and the womans job to have babies? That smacks a bit of slavery to me.

In LDS theology it's called "the patriarchal order," and Joseph F. Smith taught this will be the standard in heaven.

[_Runtu]

So its the mans eternal job to run everything and make all the decisions, and the womans job to have babies? That smacks a bit of slavery to me.

In LDS theology it's called "the patriarchal order," and Joseph F. Smith taught this will be the standard in heaven.

Is that the same Joseph F. Smith who had a little trouble with controlling his temper around his wives?

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Men will be resurrected as men, Women will be resurrcted as women. Gender is eternal, as are the male and female responsibilities.

Gaz

So its the mans eternal job to run everything and make all the decisions, and the womans job to have babies? That smacks a bit of slavery to me.

Slavery yes it does...thank you...Well said ....I thought they had abolished slavery...but as we all know that racism is alive and well...along with slavery