Hey Ray

[_DonBradley]

I can't, Don, because you WIPED all of your posts on FAIR (as Onandagus),

????

Ray, how do you "wipe" your posts from the board? Is this actually possible?

I just tried accessing my old posts and can't. But I'm curious, can you access *yours*? So far as I can see, this is a board-wide glitch. I'm inquiring about it on FAIR right now.

and abandoned the board, presumably in one of your schizo frames of mind. Sorry to sound so uncharitable, but it seems to me you're trying to accuse me of some kind of "instability", with your posts. If I misread you, then I apologise.

To "accuse" you of changing postions over time would be absurd, since changing one's mind isn't some sort of evil.

You have wrestled with Mormonism yourself, and it SHOWS.

Finally, an observation about me that actually sounds like it's about me.

You want to go back on Z and dig up all the old posts,

Speaking of which, if I'd tried to wipe clean my slate of old posts during my "wrestlings," why is my ZLMB posting record untouched?

I mean, who are the braindead anti-Mormons who can only see in black and white, like "Mr.Scratch", who obsessively digs up this past dirt?

I've commented on the DCP obsession here myself quite recently.

Cheers, Don. Keep up the good work praising the angry anti-Mormon refuse.

What exactly would make these people "refuse"? That it isn't self-evident to them that a fictional book claiming historicity and translation by quasi-magical means must have come from God rather than a human being? Or the fact they are "angry"? If the former, I would chalk that up to them being human themselves; and if the latter, how are you any different? The folks I thanked--for defending me against RfM slurs, by the way!--aren't particularly "angry," aren't all former Mormons; and are overwhelming too moderate to spend much time on RfM, which is why they're here. Why be so pissed at them of all people? And why shouldn't I be grateful for their defense of me??

Get on the winning side, Don.

How is either "side" going to "win"?

Goodnight, and best wishes.

Best wishes in your own searchings and strivings as well, Ray.

Don

[_Jersey Girl]

Excuse me....

Ray

Now you're claiming to be a "scholar of Mormonism" with no ill feeling, yet here you are sucking up to exmo ****piles, with "You Rock" posts.

Don was thanking a small group of posters who acted as witnesses to the fact that is not an LDS apologist as he was thought to be on RFM.

I don't much care what you think of me, Ray, but when you imply that the folks in that small group of posters (which includes Craig Criddle) as "exmo ****piles" I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your characterization.

You are't fit to shine the intellectual and ethical shoes of someone like Craig Criddle.

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

Don,

What you might take a look at with regards to Ray's claim that you "wiped" your Onandagus posts is the last time you used that screen name. I could be wrong about this but, I think you might take a look at how far back that board keeps old posts.

Jersey Girl

[_KimberlyAnn]

Ray's current criticism of Don:

Well, let me now put the "hard questions" to you, Don. Why have you wavered so much? One minute you post on FAIR, then declare you're leaving, only to come back, then leave again, only to come back. One minite you're friendly to Mormonism, next you're aggressive. I've never seen anyone leave and come back to FAIR as much as you have. Your "farewell"posts are now legendary! Do you have some kind of "schizoid" problem? Reading your posts over the years, I never knew where you stood. Now you're claiming to be a "scholar of Mormonism" with no ill feeling, yet here you are sucking up to exmo ****piles, with "You Rock" posts. You seem to be very unsure of your own position. Can you clarify that for me? You went from theist to atheist, and chop and change with the wind. So forgive me, Don, but you seem like a very confused person. Can you explain? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed this about your, er, wavering from pillar to post, like a martyr to your own whims.

Ray a couple months ago:

Shades,

I appreciate your comments, and let me reiterate again, I have nothing against you personally. I explained to Liz in a PM that I now feel that a more moderated board is better. I've managed to stay on FAIR/MAD for three years, and only ever had one mod warning, very early on, no doubt partly because I'm more sympathetic to Mormons, but with rules one also tends to be more conscious of what is said. Having a board with less rules and moderation is okay if most of the posters share similar worldviews, but when you have Mormons and exmos on the same forum, and few rules, I don't believe it will work properly. My long history of contention with exmos goes back to RFM, and I have learned by sad experience that we will never agree, and this final episode proves it. I feel more comfortable among the believers, and my anger seldom if ever surfaces. I have tried to "fit in" with exmos many times, and it never works.

I will leave brave (or some would say foolish) Wade to cut the ice, but I'm heading for the tropics. When my admiration for Pahoran rises so sharply, I know it's time to depart, like he eventually did. Water and oil don't mix. My "analysis" of my Mormon journey will continue on MAD, where I believe I will receive a more understanding ear, even if it means occasionally checking what I write. I share neither the cynicism nor contempt of Mormons I see among some here, nor do I have any desire nor agenda to change the Church, so we have nothing to discuss. I respect the Church, I respect its leaders, and it pains me to see them denigrated in any way. They are accused of so many wrongs, yet I know and have met many of these men in the flesh, and I know they are not guilty of charges so often laid against them. Worst of all, is that having met Dan Peterson, I abhor the accusations made against him, because I know he's a man of integrity and honesty, who wishes to see a better world, who is straightforward concerning his beliefs, always willing to hear others who talk to him reasonably and respect his beliefs, yet he is so often made out to be a villain, a liar, corrupt, immoral, and just about anything which fits evil or dishonest. It disturbs him too, and I know this for a fact. He is completely perplexed at the hatred demonstrated against him, even by people he has never met nor personally offended. Apparently, his greatest fault is being a believer and an apologist.

Let the venom spew forth. I will have no part of It.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... &start=210

Ray -

I'm amazed you were even able to type these words in particular:


"Do you have some kind of "schizoid" problem? Reading your posts over the years, I never knew where you stood. "

Are you really this unaware of your own posting style and varying stances? Do you like and respect apologists like Dan and Juliann? Well, it depends on the moment, doesn't it?

You, now, apparently, adamantly believe in not on the Book of Mormon, but all the other truth claims of the LDS church. Yet you are unwilling to live the fairly simple demands God asks of you through his prophet.

And you have the nerve to accuse Don of being "schizoid"?

Beastie, I came to this board back in March. I made my first post, which Ray promptly described as "hate speech", and then watched him go into an apoplectic rage and disappear. Because I'm fairly new, that's my only experience with Ray. I've read things he's written before, I think, which seemed at least fairly reasonable. Is the behavior Ray has displayed in the past several months normal for him? I don't know whether to worry about him or beg Dr. Shades for an ignore function. His posts are a continuous string of personal attacks. Of course, he's not the only poster here guilty of that...

Curious,

KA

[_barrelomonkeys]

Beastie, I came to this board back in March. I made my first post, which Ray promptly described as "hate speech", and then watched him go into an apoplectic rage and disappear. Because I'm fairly new, that's my only experience with Ray. I've read things he's written before, I think, which seemed at least fairly reasonable. Is the behavior Ray has displayed in the past several months normal for him? I don't know whether to worry about him or beg Dr. Shades for an ignore function. His posts are a continuous string of personal attacks. Of course, he's not the only poster here guilty of that...

Curious,

KA

KA, I hate to speak for Ray, but I think he comes to this board and acts the way he does because of the way in which some of the posters on here act. I know I act silly and flippant here because I see quite a few posters that do the same. There are serious discussions, maybe he's not distinguishing between them?

Or perhaps he was initiated to the board the same way I was. I posted one thing and Mr. Coffee attacked me immediately. At some point you take your gloves off.

[_beastie]

Beastie, I came to this board back in March. I made my first post, which Ray promptly described as "hate speech", and then watched him go into an apoplectic rage and disappear. Because I'm fairly new, that's my only experience with Ray. I've read things he's written before, I think, which seemed at least fairly reasonable. Is the behavior Ray has displayed in the past several months normal for him? I don't know whether to worry about him or beg Dr. Shades for an ignore function. His posts are a continuous string of personal attacks. Of course, he's not the only poster here guilty of that...

Ray has a long history of schizoid posting. He alternates between period of seemingly controlled, reasonable, even academic musings and rage, profanity, and ranting. I've seen him do this on every board I've seen him participate on - RFM, FAIR, ZLMB, and here.

Who knows what it is about. Whether it is a reflection of a truly unstable mind, which would provoke worry, or deliberate alteration of posting style out of boredom, or a reflection of his troubled relationship with Mormonism, I can't say.

He currently justifies his posting style by insinuating that the entire exmormon community bears the sins of the vitriolic vocal few on RFM who continually personally attack DCP. He darkly predicts that real violence (whether isolated acts of violence or orchestrated violence) will be the direct result of exmormon rantings. So the rest of us, even those who do not join in such rantings and have condemned them in the past, are at fault because we don't, somehow, rise up and control fellow exmormons. At least this is the nearest I can figure out his past rantings.

Having decided that we bear this collective guilt, and are no better than the worst at RFM, he now pretends to use the excuse of "acting like the little exmormon piggies" or the "refuse" by engaging in extreme and profane behavior. Of course, those of us with longer histories with Ray know that extreme and profane behavior have long been a part of his posting repertoire, and pretending otherwise is a ruse.

At one time, I made a sincere effort to understand and sympathize with Ray's viewpoint, but his repetitive behavior has convinced me to abandon any such effort, and I now view him as, more or less, a different version of a troll. Of course, like any troll, he ends up doing more damage to the "side" he favors than anything else. I mean, really, not even the most intense True Believer on MAD is going to think that his current behavior does them any favors. But he's repeatedly emphasized he doesn't care what they think of him over there, either. Perhaps, like most trolls, he just wants attention.

I certainly wouldn't advocate actively worrying about him, however. Don't you have enough on your plate in "real life"? Why actively worry about someone who may actually just have a deviant sense of humor?

[_beastie]

KA, I hate to speak for Ray, but I think he comes to this board and acts the way he does because of the way in which some of the posters on here act. I know I act silly and flippant here because I see quite a few posters that do the same. There are serious discussions, maybe he's not distinguishing between them?

Or perhaps he was initiated to the board the same way I was. I posted one thing and Mr. Coffee attacked me immediately. At some point you take your gloves off.

I can say from long observation of Ray, that this is an incorrect assessment.

[_barrelomonkeys]

KA, I hate to speak for Ray, but I think he comes to this board and acts the way he does because of the way in which some of the posters on here act. I know I act silly and flippant here because I see quite a few posters that do the same. There are serious discussions, maybe he's not distinguishing between them?

Or perhaps he was initiated to the board the same way I was. I posted one thing and Mr. Coffee attacked me immediately. At some point you take your gloves off.

I can say from long observation of Ray, that this is an incorrect assessment.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Oh well.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I certainly wouldn't advocate actively worrying about him, however. Don't you have enough on your plate in "real life"? Why actively worry about someone who may actually just have a deviant sense of humor?

Yes, I have a lot on my plate in real life. I wasn't suggesting that I would ever lose any sleep worrying about Ray, I just wondered if, while reading his posts, I should think, "Is Ray alright?" or if I should think, "Good grief, what an @$$hole!"

Thanks for the information. I won't be worrying about Ray.

KA

[_Gazelam]

"No worries here!" ... Ray

No offence Ray, I just couldent resist with the current thread going the way it is : )