Oaks criticizes "soccer" and team sports

[_Zoidberg]

I got a marker (paintball gun) as well. For the past 6 years I was pretty much the only dad that played with my son's group of 8-12 buddies on a regular basis (partly because I'm in better shape than some of them). It's been an adrenalin rush and perhaps even fun, but it would be ridiculous not to consider it a dark sport. I'd prefer not to play it, but they enjoy that a little more than wake/snowboarding.

I must be an idiot because I don't think paintball is a dark sport. Football is, however.:) I guess it depends on who you're playing with. Perhaps I'm out of touch with the rising generation.

No, I'm quite passive but not stupid. That is why I choose to be skilled in real world self defence as well as be familiar with the laws that govern their use.

And no, every kid is different. Some are not aggressive and need no outlet at all. I don't think outlawing violent games is a solution either but I think they need to be put into perspective.

One of my boys is obsessed with violent video games like Halo, and despite the restrictions he is consumed by the rush. I brought home Saving Private Ryan and insisted we watch it together last month (inspite of him being a TBM that doesn't watch R movies). We experienced it in a setting much like you would in the theater. It was very sobering to him and that was good.

I think Hotel Rwanda is a good example of a violent movie, as well. Makes you very anti-genocide.

Maybe some GA needs to come out and pronounce which video game ratings are acceptable, hmm? It'll probably happen in a couple decades or so. Right now they are too busy trying to find their way in the series of tubes, a.k.a. "the internets".:)

[_Gadianton]

For the record, studies show that video games may contribute to bla bla bla..."

yeah, yeah.

It's the only medium where you can fantasize that you are actually an amazing athlete while sporting what I call a "nintendo gut".

I guess some my not recognize the problem here. These kids will die fat and young, desensitized to random acts of aggression/violence, bereft of interactive social skills, unable to qualify for even military service because 300,000 cyber situps don't really count.

You would not want these Halo orphans to end up on your local police force.

Anyway, Oaks ought attend his great, great, great, great, great grandson's scouting overnighter and discover what the real problems are (Odds are that the kid is most likely home bullseyeing womp rats).

I call complete shenanigans on you.

As someone that grew up in the Nintendo Generation, I don't sport a gut and yet I spend around 4 hours a day sitting on my ass playing games. And anyone who's ever met me wouldn't say that I'm socially incapable.

It's called personal (and parental) responsibility, for Christ's sake. Moderation. Do I play a lot of games? Hell yes. I used to play at a quasi-professional level, often making around $500 per week by playing in tournaments. That means a lot of practice.

But I also have a life outside of video games. I do Belegarth, one of the most physically demanding things on this earth (other than futball).

Teach your kids how to take some f*****g responsibility for themselves. Take some f*****g responsibility yourself.

Hey, there's a simple solution. Why didn't I think of tha. . . wait a minute.

I've passed the military PT tests several times (one of which happened to be at the Halo 2 release party at the mall, at the height of my gaming where I was practicing for 7 hours a day and competing for another 4).

Just because you're too damn lazy to be a responsible person doesn't mean everyone else is.

For those that think they are somehow training for a real job someday because they also emulate the Duke Nukem physique:

Military, perhaps (Best of luck adapting to real world Rules of Engagement. Some of the boys on their way to Levenworth have had some difficulty with that). Bryan, Do you have any conceivable idea what they are actually looking for in a soldier that lives what you make believe? Is there an agency that aggressively seeks young men conditioned in the sport of body count gaming?

Local/County Law enforcement, no way.

Security Guard, no.

INS/ICE, Never. Even more restrictive than L/C law enforcement.

FBI, CIA, no.

Circle K, they may overlook it. But unfortunately, you can only carry after hours.

Flame away Bryan, But the amount of time and energy you focus into your "hobby" will effect (no doubt has effected) your perception of the real world and the value you place on human life. Training to be an award winning killing machine that makes $500 on a good week will qualify you as a mercenary or a bodyguard of a drug dealer. Otherwise you're going to need some serious deprogramming before you find yourself engaged in any principled modern day peacekeeping.

Inspite of all the flap I've given you, my real world includes possessing a CCW permit since it's legislation and sporting firearms primarily intended for defense of the 2 legged varmints. And yes, most likely I'll crap my pants and throw up if I ever have to engage my real world training skills.

Still, I think Dallin Oaks was way off on his perspective of the youth of this generation, in and out of their church.

I don't think anyone can seriously argue that avid gamers are typically or even often as in shape as avid jocks. the lines cross, and there's always the exception. The most famous game tester for Age of Mythology was a star athelete. Bit of course there is no agency that seeks avid gamers, to my knowledge. But there are uh, plenty of employment opportunities that most would regard as far superior to local law enforcement jobs that people heavily into computer gaming are often qualified for. In fact, as some of us who do game (or did) and have real jobs know, 40% of your job seeking potential depends on your resume, and the rest depends on how well everyone thinks you'll fit in the corporate culture. So at a recent interview I had for an off-the-charts high tech company, there was some discussion of gaming. At my present job, long ago, discussion of gaming was near mandatory.

As for high-school atheletes, if they can maintain their shape throughout life that's awesome. As one who wasn't good at team sports, later on in life I got the desire for improving physically. But I'm thinking back to many one-time atheletes I know. Here's what happens:

-jock works out heavy, strives for the competitive edge
-heavy exercise and muscle gain require lots of calories, jock eats a lot.
-jock goes to college
-jock is now a small fish in a big pond
-jock realizes that 4th string tight end isn't the be-all end-all of life, and starts focusing energy away from heavy training towards other things.
-eventually the fun is over, jock gets married and has to get a job. maybe he has a kid now, a priesthood calling with endless meetings, and minus 10% of his income, a great deal of financial stress.
-jock now has little free time, but he still eats 5,000 calories a day. and worse, metabalism slows.
-jock is now huge.

[_Infymus]

This one is for you, Black Moclips. Enjoy!

[_Gadianton]

Another quick insight. My parents - and I love them - are a few years older than most of the parents of my friends. Those few years made a very big difference, made it exceptionally hard for them to relate to young adults. It's not really their fault, that's just the way it is.

The 15 afossils are ancient. they're hopeless to relate to the youth of the church and just make fools of themselves with their "inspired" counsel.

(by the way, one can test their own potential to relate to younger generations by this simple heuristic -- if the music you loved between the ages of 14 and 19 is indisputably the best music ever written, and everything else is crap, then you will likely have the same troubles as the old Oak tree. If you can't see why this is so, then you'll never understand a teenager after you hit 40)

[_Bryan Inks]

For those that think they are somehow training for a real job someday because they also emulate the Duke Nukem physique:

Military, perhaps (Best of luck adapting to real world Rules of Engagement. Some of the boys on their way to Levenworth have had some difficulty with that). Bryan, Do you have any conceivable idea what they are actually looking for in a soldier that lives what you make believe? Is there an agency that aggressively seeks young men conditioned in the sport of body count gaming?

Actually, I know for a fact that the Air Force prefers people who play video games, especially in piloting MOSs, because of the improved hand-eye coordination.

The Marines and Army are jumping on that as well. Video games have a known positive improvement in teamwork skills, organization, instant adaptation to unforeseen situations and more.

Situational awareness? Oh yeah, that's improved as well and is also one of the things the military looks for.

And, honestly, if they didn't think that video games provided something positive, why would the government spend the time and money to produce their own? Ever heard of America's Army?

And your baseless assumption that everyone who plays games plays FPS is so off-base it isn't funny. Nor is your assumption that everyone playing games wants to get a job killing people.

Some people, myself included, use it strictly as a hobby. My wife plays Guitar Hero with me because it is a fun thing that we can do together that doesn't take long at all. She also plays World of Warcraft.

Flame away Bryan, But the amount of time and energy you focus into your "hobby" will effect (no doubt has effected) your perception of the real world and the value you place on human life.

You're absolutely correct. Because of my experiences with gaming, I place an amazingly high value on life. I also am completely amazed at how stupid people like you and Jack Thompson appear when you try talking about gaming.

Am I desensitized to violence? Yes, but only in the various media formats. Maybe I'm different from your run of the mill, stereotypical gamer, but the difference between real life and fiction has always been very clear to me.

Training to be an award winning killing machine that makes $500 on a good week will qualify you as a mercenary or a bodyguard of a drug dealer. Otherwise you're going to need some serious deprogramming before you find yourself engaged in any principled modern day peacekeeping.

Assuming of course that I'm a f*cking retard and actually think that the games I play will assist me in my chosen field, I don't see how this applies. I'm a network engineer. I don't like the idea of taking life in most forms. I abhor hunting, deplore wars and terrorism and think that random acts of violence are evil.

Inspite of all the flap I've given you, my real world includes possessing a CCW permit since it's legislation and sporting firearms primarily intended for defense of the 2 legged varmints. And yes, most likely I'll crap my pants and throw up if I ever have to engage my real world training skills.

I know how to kill people. I know how to kill animals. But I don't even own a gun. . . so, who is it that's out of touch with reality?

Still, I think Dallin Oaks was way off on his perspective of the youth of this generation, in and out of their church.

Agreed.

[_Bryan Inks]

And to completely cap and debunk your argument, I was just listening to NPR this morning and they were talking about how the Marines had a program where by they used the game Doom for training purposes, but since it wasn't applicable to the situation, they are building their own video game for training purposes.

Army, Air Force, Marines. . . ooh. Looks like you lose.

[_rcrocket]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue that avid gamers are typically or even often as in shape as avid jocks . . .

As one who counsels troubled teens and arranges for professional counseling for them, I take exception to your position. Internet gaming addiction has been pondered as a possible mental illness in various papers and positions in the APA for several years.

Somehow, I don't see a lot of folks on this board condemning the lifestyle of the WoW aficionado.

rcrocket

[_Inconceivable]

And to completely cap and debunk your argument, I was just listening to NPR this morning and they were talking about how the Marines had a program where by they used the game Doom for training purposes, but since it wasn't applicable to the situation, they are building their own video game for training purposes.

Army, Air Force, Marines. . . ooh. Looks like you lose.

In the immortal words of Monty Python: "I'm not quite dead yet".


I'm repeating you:

..but since it wasn't applicable to the situation, they are building their own video game for training purposes.

Listen to yourself, Ink.


inc.

[_Gadianton]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue that avid gamers are typically or even often as in shape as avid jocks . . .

As one who counsels troubled teens and arranges for professional counseling for them, I take exception to your position. Internet gaming addiction has been pondered as a possible mental illness in various papers and positions in the APA for several years.

Somehow, I don't see a lot of folks on this board condemning the lifestyle of the WoW aficionado.

rcrocket

You take exception to my comment that avid gamers will be typically less physically fit than avid atheletes?

.....oooooook