Why is my (mms) story, if true, of such concern to some?

[_mms]

If you don't want commentary about your credentials and personal anecdotes, don't offer them up for comments.

I'll take that as your way of saying you do not want to answer the question. Fine.

I have no view one way or the other about you leaving or staying in the church, but I can't see why you'd want to waste any time with an organization you think if false. In my case, the Spirit convicts me of the truth and the necessary to speak it.

rcrocket

You are a Bishop, right? Then shouldn't you "have a view one way or another about [me] staying or leaving the church"? Indeed, as an active leader, I certainly felt it my duty and obligation to have a view on that issue for every member and that view was that because it is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, every member should stay. Just curious as your position seems antithetical to that taken by the Brethren on the issue of people staying or leaving. (Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care whether you have a view on my situation, but have encountered several people claiming to be faithful members with full and undeniable testimonies who seem to say "take it or leave it, I don't care", which seems to me to be inconsistent with the testimony presented.)

[_cksalmon]

If you don't want commentary about your credentials and personal anecdotes, don't offer them up for comments.

I'll take that as your way of saying you do not want to answer the question. Fine.

I have no view one way or the other about you leaving or staying in the church, but I can't see why you'd want to waste any time with an organization you think if false. In my case, the Spirit convicts me of the truth and the necessary to speak it.

rcrocket

You are a Bishop, right? Then shouldn't you "have a view one way or another about [me] staying or leaving the church"? Indeed, as an active leader, I certainly felt it my duty and obligation to have a view on that issue for every member and that view was that because it is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, every member should stay. Just curious as your position seems antithetical to that taken by the Brethren on the issue of people staying or leaving. (Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care whether you have a view on my situation, but have encountered several people claiming to be faithful members with full and undeniable testimonies who seem to say "take it or leave it, I don't care", which seems to me to be inconsistent with the testimony presented.)

You might be experiencing LCS (Lost Cause Syndrome). From what I've seen on MADB, once one begins asking uncomfortable questions and fails to find the answers convincing, he or she acquires the Lost Cause Syndrome: it's your fault for not knowing; it's your fault for not having faith enough; you're just looking for a reason to leave; you're not worth the effort.

Or, at least, that how it seems to play out on more than a rare occasion.

What faithful LDS would simply have no opinion whether you remain in or reject the One True Church and go to your grave an apostate?

As one might expect, the vast majority of LDS responses to your query are quite caring and potentially helpful. Put simply, most LDS here really do have an opinion as to whether you remain or leave. They want you to remain. Good for them.

I wouldn't expect anything less from them than that.

Best.

CKS

[_rcrocket]

You are a Bishop, right? Then shouldn't you "have a view one way or another about [me] staying or leaving the church"? Indeed, as an active leader, I certainly felt it my duty and obligation to have a view on that issue for every member and that view was that because it is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, every member should stay.

One thing I have never done is claimed that being a bishop (or a high councilor, or an elder's q president) gives me any more (or less) insight to human nature, scriptures and history than it does anybody else. I don't think it does, except perhaps to somebody in my ward who seeks advice. I certainly have never appeared on this board and demanded an audience because I am a bishop. I think my earliest appearance on this board mentioned the fact that I was a bishop and then that was the end of that.

Simply put, I think I have answered your questions. I have explained that your personal claimed condition (member of the Church and all them anecdotes) should really play no role in responding to your questions, if you ever have any. I have explained that credentials and anecdotes are rather irrelevant unless there really is some deep and special expertise, such as being able to read Greek.

And, I believe in free will and integrity. You should act according to, and consistently, with your beliefs. If you think the Church is false and foolishness, then by all means leave. I will not condemn you for your departure, other than to make my trademark comment that you will surely burn in hell [a joke, but humor ain't much here], nor feel threatened by it.

rcrocket

[_cksalmon]

You are a Bishop, right? Then shouldn't you "have a view one way or another about [me] staying or leaving the church"? Indeed, as an active leader, I certainly felt it my duty and obligation to have a view on that issue for every member and that view was that because it is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, every member should stay.

Just for clarity, I'd point out that these are mms's questions, not mine.

CKS

[_SatanWasSetUp]

To true-believing Mormons, the church is so obviously and manifestly true that it's simply inconceivable that someone could "know" this and then come to doubt it. When someone stands up and says they've done exactly that, it's really disturbing. Something "impossible" is happening,

Yes, since the church is true the debate is over. Kinda like Melph's promise in The Book of Zelph.

And something that is true cannot be proven untrue. Wherefore, if ye roll not a seven, it be not the fault of this book, and it doth prove not that this book be untrue, because this book is true, wherefore, it cannot be proven untrue.

This is parody, but it really is how true believers think.

[_Pokatator]

I do think mms that you may be banned but there is a chance for your ban to be lifted. Go to another computer and write a message to one of the mods and express regret for the ban and then promise to be a good boy or girl and asked to be let on again. Tell them your story from the heart. I think that it would work.

Also, I would suggest posting in the fellowship thread or LDSforums for dialogue and not debate.

I can see how you operate and have survived why me.

Check your values and integrity at the sign in.

Don't bring anything like the Boy Scouts Oath or honesty with you.

Ignore the 13th Article of Faith.

Eat ****, beg, kiss ***, get on your knees and perform something and get back in.

Why me, little man, er I mean good boy, you are pathetic.

[_Trevor]

I can see how you operate and have survived why me.

Check your values and integrity at the sign in.

Don't bring anything like the Boy Scouts Oath or honesty with you.

Ignore the 13th Article of Faith.

Eat ****, beg, kiss ***, get on your knees and perform something and get back in.

Why me, little man, er I mean good boy, you are pathetic.

In a system that idolizes authority, what else should we expect?

[_cksalmon]

What I meant was, why does my story generally as opposed to specifically, which I believe now is the story of many, considered so potentially damaging, if true?

Is it true?

[_rcrocket]

What I meant was, why does my story generally as opposed to specifically, which I believe now is the story of many, considered so potentially damaging, if true?

Who here considers it "so potentially damaging?" I think it is silly nonsense because you don't want to engage in any debates of substance.

rcrocket

[_mms]

What I meant was, why does my story generally as opposed to specifically, which I believe now is the story of many, considered so potentially damaging, if true?

Is it true?

I'm afraid so.

If someone was really interested, I think a review of my 330 or so posts at MA&D would, together, make it as clear as can be made--when anonymous--that I am who I say I am. Either that or I am damn good at deception without purpose (I say "without purpose" because a review of all of my posts should indicate that I have not encouraged anyone to do anything and have no agenda except to gather some helpful thoughts on my situation and to encourage the church to be more forthright and make a greater effort to educate on controversial topics--this agenda, of course, is entirely consistent with my "story").

I guess I wish I could announce that I made it all up. But, unfortunately, I cannot. My world has changed permanently, in that I will never see things the way I did, again--regardless of where I end up.