Church Surveillance

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Mister Scratch wrote:Name of attorney please? I'll call and get the straight story and report back.


I don't know. Could it really be that hard for you to ferret out, Bobby?[/quote]

As I suspected. You don't know.

I typically go by "Bob."

Name and evidence please? Or is your grandfather an "anonymous coward"?


Earl Crockett, Academic VP. I interviewed also three of the professors involved. I also have been granted access to the presidential papers at BYU. Thinking of writing a paper some day but won't until they are all passed on.

Note that I am willing to cite my sources.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

why me wrote:
rcrocket wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:His attorney was contacted by Church Security agents. Also, he was able to determine that one of the people trying to get a hold of him was writing/calling from the COB. I don't think that "confused missionaries" would try to get to him via a bogus credit card application.


Name of attorney please? I'll call and get the straight story and report back.

The Church itself has admitted to the BYU spy ring.


I am intimately familiar with this, having a grandfather involved and several professors I have personally interviewed. The "Church" was involved only to the extent it squelched it once it figured out what was going on. My grandfather was the designated squelcher. You're just wrong.

Thanks rcrockey for the truth. I kinda knew that the some of the stories being spread about 'MOinc', 'the morg', 'TSCC' were wrong. But unfortunately, many believe. The morg is not the morg nor is it MOinc and some of the negatives being spread, are just that negatives without foundation.


rcrocket is not feeding you the truth, why me. Dallin Oaks himself admitted that the Church was using unethical tactics in order to ferret out homosexuals and other "dissidents." These unethical tactics included electronic surveillance and unwarranted searches of dorm rooms, etc.
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Mister Scratch wrote:Who has done more of this, more effectively and more diversely, than Quinn? I'll be waiting patiently for you to enlighten me.


Which of his books have been published in peer-reviewed organs?
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Mister Scratch wrote:rcrocket is not feeding you the truth, why me. Dallin Oaks himself admitted that the Church was using unethical tactics in order to ferret out homosexuals and other "dissidents." These unethical tactics included electronic surveillance and unwarranted searches of dorm rooms, etc.


Cite please, for all these assertions.
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Post by _why me »

Mister Scratch wrote:
But why? Have you not heard DCP and others state that Church publications on Church subjects are well-regarded in academe? I mean, FARMS Review is a perfectly reputable journal, no?

This doesn't make any sense at all. If you are hunting for an Egyptologist, you'd want someone who's published extensively in Egyptology. Likewise, if you are looking for a historian of Mormonism, you'd want someone who has published extensively in Mormon history. Who has done more of this, more effectively and more diversely, than Quinn? I'll be waiting patiently for you to enlighten me.


If Mike was overweighted in church publications it would not go well for him. It does not have anything to do with respect but with variations outside one source. The church link would color the publications.

I would want someone who just isn't published by church sources. Rather, I would want someone who has a varied academic past with publications in independent channels. For example, in independent historical academic journals.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Mister Scratch wrote:I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things?


Rather than "predictable" I prefer "consistent."
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Mister Scratch wrote:Come on, Wade. We both know that Church surveillance of members goes far, far beyond taking attendance. We know, for example, that the SCMC maintains files on "dissident" Church members, and that Church Security have been involved in "intelligence gathering" and "stake-outs."


Queue up the Dragnet refrane....dun dun dun daaaaa!!!!

Gee, Wade, and I thought you had such an air-tight argument that it would scarcely have taken any effort at all on your part! Instead, you admit that it's virtually impossible to find instances of me "mocking" your belief. Or, in other words, No, you don't have any evidence. Thanks, Wade: you lose again.


I'm pleased that you would think so, and am all for helping you become a legend in your own mind. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Trevor wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things


When you are inside the system, benefit from it, and are not adversely affected by it, it is indeed difficult to perceive the problems or dignify these accusations. It is only when you live in a banana republic that you appreciate the real harm that is done by a nation like the US. It is only when you deeply offend people in power that you appreciate what their power can mean in negative terms. For the fat, happy, and complacent to deny these problems is their luxury, and it is also utterly meaningless with regard to the full extent of the reality of the case.


Earth to Trevor...come in...this is your sense of perspective calling...my instruments indicate a malfunction of your environmental controls, and detect a massive overload of melodrama of the nationalistic-envy kind. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Pokatator wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I was using your terms when I said 'hunts' Scratch. By hunting I meant something similar to a Missionary looking for a less-active's address though I'm sure in your insanity this will become one of your favorite quotable quotes, Uncle Creepy.


Perhaps you could show a little maturity and drop the Uncle Creepy stuff.


I rather doubt it, my dear friend Pokatator. The Nehor has had his butt kicked on here so many times that he actually seems constitutionally unable to engage in actual debate. Thus, he's forced to rely on sophomoric name-calling and the like. Oh, and did you know that he has some <ahem> rather "interesting" preoccupations? Check out his dossier on my blog for more details. This may explain why he is using this "Uncle Creepy" crutch. It's called "projection".


Not projection....retaliation. Note the difference. I'll make a deal Pokatator. If Scratch alters his blog entry with the corrections I gave him (and that he was just speculating on) I'll stop. Until then, Uncle Creepy seems a fitting title for a lonely man on the Internet who spends his time speculating and researching people's masturbatory habits.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_silentkid
_Emeritus
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:50 pm

Post by _silentkid »

The Nehor wrote:Not projection....retaliation. Note the difference. I'll make a deal Moksha.


Pokatator.

Protecting the rights of spuds and penguins alike.
Post Reply