Mercury wrote:I remember repeatedly during the eighties the old ward members would get up and rile against those "damn christians" and how thankful they were that they were not christian.
Sorry dude. I don't believe the context was they were not Christian. If this was really said then it was not sectarian Christian.
http://www.answers.com/topic/sectarian : adj. 1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect. 2. Adhering or confined to the dogmatic limits of a sect or denomination; partisan. 3. Narrow-minded; parochial. n. 1. A member of a sect. 2. One characterized by bigoted adherence to a factional viewpoint.
It is interesting. Did Joseph Smith, BY et al know the meaning of the word? It's disputable.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about the provenance of the organization, actually. The LDS Church is not now and never was a "splinter group" from, or branch of, the "Christian Church" in the sense that many other churches can legitimately claim to be (Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc.).
While technically not a splinter the LDS Church was founded in the fervor of a restorationist movement. Smith claimed it to be a resoration of true Christianity. Get that? Thus the LDS Church has it birth in Christian traditions, and is a sub set of Christianity. You may consider it non orthodox or even heritical but is is par of Christianity.
The FLDS Church was, however, a direct splinter from the LDS Church.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:19)
Anyone Mormon out there want to debate the Mormon God?
This is not His opinion.
The Mormon God does not have an opinion
He chose Joseph Smith, Brigham Young et al.
If you don't agree with all that He revealed to them, refer to the verse above.
I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about the provenance of the organization, actually. The LDS Church is not now and never was a "splinter group" from, or branch of, the "Christian Church" in the sense that many other churches can legitimately claim to be (Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc.).
While technically not a splinter the LDS Church was founded in the fervor of a restorationist movement. Smith claimed it to be a resoration of true Christianity. Get that? Thus the LDS Church has it birth in Christian traditions, and is a sub set of Christianity. You may consider it non orthodox or even heritical but is is par of Christianity.
The FLDS Church was, however, a direct splinter from the LDS Church.
I think I said that too. So what is your point?
Two points--I'll clarify them for you:
1) That if the LDS Church wants to claim being "Christian" on that basis, it cannot deny the ability of offshoot restorationist branches that sprung from Joseph Smith the title of "Mormon" should they self-choose it.
2) Further, that the LDS Church is disingenuous in claiming "identity theft" when FLDS take the "LDS" part of the name, when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is guilty of the same in taking the "Church of Jesus Christ" part.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
1) That if the LDS Church wants to claim being "Christian" on that basis, it cannot deny the ability of offshoot restorationist branches that sprung from Joseph Smith the title of "Mormon" should they self-choose it.
2) Further, that the LDS Church is disingenuous in claiming "identity theft" when FLDS take the "LDS" part of the name, when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is guilty of the same in taking the "Church of Jesus Christ" part.
God came down to earth and had sex with Mary and Jesus was the result. Since he is God, perfected and resurrected and not 'man', Mary remained a virgin. Jesus is his son.
Mahonri wrote:God came down to earth and had sex with Mary and Jesus was the result. Since he is God, perfected and resurrected and not 'man', Mary remained a virgin. Jesus is his son.
This is what I was taught growing up. I always found this concept rather sick and twisted.
This is what I was taught growing up. I always found this concept rather sick and twisted.
If you were taught this, then you were being taught someone's extrapolations or personal speculation, as this is most definitely not official or settled Church doctrine. I say, "most definitely" to mean not that he did not come down to her and Jesus was not conceived in some manner that involved them both, but that they "had sex" in the manner in which we understand it.
1. Was the manner in which you were conceived "sick and twisted"?
2. Are the murky Hellenistic metaphysics which inform the traditional Christian view any improvement?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.
Droopy wrote: 2. Are the murky Hellenistic metaphysics which inform the traditional Christian view any improvement?
I think a lot of the confusion comes from the scriptural reference in the New Testament to the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit "coming upon" Mary and the power of the Most High "overshadowing" her, whereby her child would be called the "son of God."
In the LDS zeal to answer mysteries rather than leave them unexplained, they've sought to come up with what seems to them to be a logical interpretation of this passage, whereas other Christian faiths tend to leave it at the level of mystery; that is, they acknowledge the role of God in Jesus' conception, and don't seek to explain it or have it explained to them.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.