moksha wrote:I have seen mention of the weight of the plates as being 240 lbs. based on the dimensions and the heaviness of gold.
There is some speculation that the plates may have been an alloy rather than gold (tenisum or tumbaga or something like that?) which would have appeared to be gold, but much lighter.
I believe if it was tumbaga then its an alloy and to achieve the weight of 60lbs it would have to be gold and another metal - copper most likely -and copper the main ingredient so much so that over a short period of time the metal would turn green from oxidation .. so the plates would not be gold in tone but green.. Unless of course Moroni was polishing them regularly.. that I suppose would be the FARMS explanation...
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it. Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010
LifeOnaPlate wrote:This response doesn't even begin to examine what Hale objected to in regards to Joseph, or any interaction they may have had regarding "plates." It becomes clear how much detail you have personally investigated in regards to this question and I shall view you as an uninformed participant. :)
I will assume though you do not refute that Joseph Smith was an liar and adulterer ..But by all means feel free to ignore my comments..
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it. Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010
You guys obviously haven't been exposed to many TBMs. This is so easy.
1) Isaac Hale was not allowed to see the plates because he was not faithful. If the Lord allowed him to physically see the plates he would not require faith. Faith precedes the miracle.
2) The plates could have weighed 2,000,000 lbs and Joseph still could've carried them because god wanted him to, and god can lighten the load. Are you saying god could not make the 60 pound plates lighter so Joseph could escape his attackers?
There. Problem solved. I know the church is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
SatanWasSetUp wrote:You guys obviously haven't been exposed to many TBMs. This is so easy.
1) Isaac Hale was not allowed to see the plates because he was not faithful. If the Lord allowed him to physically see the plates he would not require faith. Faith precedes the miracle.
2) The plates could have weighed 2,000,000 lbs and Joseph still could've carried them because god wanted him to, and god can lighten the load. Are you saying god could not make the 60 pound plates lighter so Joseph could escape his attackers?
There. Problem solved. I know the church is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet.
So true. I'm sure there are a hundred scriptures in the Bible where God made impossibly heavy things light for a short time.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
I'm not sure I'm needed here, really, since you folks seem to be supplying "the FARMS side" of the conversation on your own, as you conceive it to be.
The simple fact is that there are witnesses who remember being there when Joseph made it to the Smith family house panting and near collapse from exhaustion, with a dislocated thumb, and immediately thrust an extremely dense and heavy covered object into his sister's arms and asked her to hide it. And Martin Harris and others report holding an extremely dense and heavy covered object that Joseph said was the plates -- which Martin said was too heavy to have been a rock but must have been lead or gold.
So are you really trying to argue, a priori, that Joseph didn't have in his possession, and carry, an extremely dense and heavy covered object?
Well, of course we're arguing that our experience leads to a logical conclusion. Fat Man, have you taken the time to actually carry, say, a 45 lbs weight around the track at BYU? Have you? That would go a long way toward understanding the impossibility of this particular story.
Daniel Peterson wrote:antishock8, if you didn't behave like a jackass here, it might be tempting to try to converse with you.
I understand. The feeling is mutual. Please, leave the a priori crap at the door and just talk like a human being. Honestly. Openly. I'm willing to concede the unknowable to me if you're willing to concede the knowable to me. We can have middle ground, I'm sure.
gramps wrote:Are there any reviews online of [Anderson's] book of which you might be aware?
Bill Russell's review is available here (pp. 130-33).
Incidentally, if anyone would like an electronic copy of Richard Anderson's Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses, send me a PM.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac