Went through the Temple last week...

[_Ray A]

[Mod Scottie: Personal attack deleted.]

[_The Dude]

The temple and the scriptures aren't supposed to teach science. Got it. But they are supposed to contain truth, and it seems that they can't help but touch on issues of science. If you stop with the italicized mantra then you are only paying lip service to basic LDS principles where truth and understanding promote spiritual growth.

I don't think it would hurt anyone's spiritual growth if the temple ceremony were updated to replace the words "each after it's own kind" with something more accurate (from God's perspective) like "descent with modification". In fact, I think it would help most peoples' spiritual growth if the temple taught truth -- the truth from God's long-view perspective -- instead of the myopic human perspective that sees animal forms as unchanging. If the teaching of "each after it's own kind" does anything to temple patrons, it reinforces a traditional and primitive understanding of life on earth. God knows about evolution. There's nothing to hide.

[_wenglund]

[Mod Scottie: Personal attack deleted.]

Again, this is really unlike you, Ray, and I am beginning to wonder if one of the less seemly RFMers is impersonating you so as to embarrass and make you look bad.

But, if it is you, I care enough about you to wait patiently until you expel all the venom that has accumulated in your soul, and then I will be pleased to engage you in mutually respectful and productive discourse--and, no, that does not mean "agree with Wade".

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Ray A]

Again, this is really unlike you, Ray, and I am beginning to wonder if one of the less seemly RFMers is impersonating you so as to embarrass and make you look bad.

But, if it is you, I care enough about you to wait patiently until you expel all the venom that has accumulated in your soul, and then I will be pleased to engage you in mutually respectful and productive discourse--and, no, that does not mean "agree with Wade".

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, all of my critical posts are dedicated to Wheat.

Go figure. And reign in your crazy fundies.

[_wenglund]

The temple and the scriptures aren't supposed to teach science. Got it. But they are supposed to contain truth, and it seems that they can't help but touch on issues of science. If you stop with the italicized mantra then you are only paying lip service to basic LDS principles where truth and understanding promote spiritual growth.

I don't think it would hurt anyone's spiritual growth if the temple ceremony were updated to replace the words "each after it's own kind" with something more accurate (from God's perspective) like "descent with modification". In fact, I think it would help most peoples' spiritual growth if the temple taught truth -- the truth from God's long-view perspective -- instead of the myopic human perspective that sees animal forms as unchanging. If the teaching of "each after it's own kind" does anything to temple patrons, it reinforces a traditional and primitive understanding of life on earth. God knows about evolution. There's nothing to hide.

Ironically, from your own "myopic human perspective" you presume to tell God (with his "long-view" perspective), and his chosen leaders, what and how things should be taught the members of his Church during the temple ceremony--and this while evidently lacking an adequate grasp of the intent and purpose of the restored gospel in which you no longer believe.

Truely amazing!

Again, it is not that God or the Church is hiding evolution. It is just that the scientific notion of evolution is not directly relevant to the LDS spiritual epistemic. It is only indirectly relevant in the metaphoric sense that it underscores the notion of eternal progression.

What I am talking about is teaching to the subject and delivering a curriculum that meets the afore-determined instructional objectives. That is why you will likely not hear any mention of evolution during even graduate courses in mathematics. It's not that the math instructors are trying to hide evolution. Rather, the scientific notion of evolution doesn't pertain much if at all to the students learning the fundamental of mathematics.

Is that more clear?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

I see that you are still disposed to emoting in vial ways

Huh, that's odd. I've always found it charming when small, liquid-filled containers began to speak. Then again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not fully fluent in "Englush."

[_wenglund]

Again, this is really unlike you, Ray, and I am beginning to wonder if one of the less seemly RFMers is impersonating you so as to embarrass and make you look bad.

But, if it is you, I care enough about you to wait patiently until you expel all the venom that has accumulated in your soul, and then I will be pleased to engage you in mutually respectful and productive discourse--and, no, that does not mean "agree with Wade".

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, all of my critical posts are dedicated to Wheat.

Go figure. And reign in your crazy fundies.

I see. So you are making me pay for the presumed sins of someone else--someone who I know nothing about and over whom I have no rightful control. Got it.

Well....when you decide to have a reasoned discussion with me about things I have said, please let me know. Until then, I will leave you to hiss and spite in Wheats direction without me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Ray A:

In the past there have been times I felt conversing with you could be mutually fruitful. The further I read into this thread, however, the more I felt you were acting like an arrogant jerk. Now I am certainly not immune to acting that way, but for crying out loud, your arrogance and dismissals here preclude my desire to attempt participation. And rather than it being an admission of how right you are, for me, it's more that you are being a jerk and I don't see a good reason right now to engage. Just to let you know.

[_wenglund]

I see that you are still disposed to emoting in vial ways

Huh, that's odd. I've always found it charming when small, liquid-filled containers began to speak. Then again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not fully fluent in "Englush."

...it was very clever how you kept pouring it on (pun intended). [thumbs up]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Ray A]

I see. So you are making me pay for the presumed sins of someone else--someone who I know nothing about and over whom I have no rightful control. Got it.

Well....when you decide to have a reasoned discussion with me about things I have said, please let me know. Until then, I will leave you to hiss and spite in Wheats direction without me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

When a Mormon gets some public praise every member takes the praise, usually brought to the attention of all by media-voyeur Smac. You can't have it both ways. You should also accept responsibility for the crazy fundies in your church. DCP is encouraging moderation in Islam. I'm encouraging moderation in Mormonism.