in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

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_Mercury
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _Mercury »

harmony wrote:
Mercury wrote:You can't fix stupid. MormonCorp is going to degenerate further and further into obscurity, the poor and disenfranchized sucking up nourishment, hopefully bleeding it dry.


Not for a long long time. At least, not as long as the BIC continue to have children.


Keep dreaming the dream harm. Maybe one day you'll get your wish and they will give you the priesthood!
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_harmony
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _harmony »

Mercury wrote:Keep dreaming the dream harm. Maybe one day you'll get your wish and they will give you the priesthood!


if they were really going to give me my present wish, it would be to pay off my student loans.

I think you're destined to be disappointed, Merc. The tithepayers now aren't at all concerned about the inactivity rate of converts... why would that change? The poor and uneducated who join the church find it's not a free ride... they have to work for their food and rent. They have to stay clean and sober. They can't smoke. They're expected to hold a calling. No wonder they don't stick around long. Expectations are high and there is no handout for those who can't keep up.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_TAK
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _TAK »

harmony wrote:

I think you're destined to be disappointed, Merc. The tithepayers now aren't at all concerned about the inactivity rate of converts... why would that change? The poor and uneducated who join the church find it's not a free ride... they have to work for their food and rent. They have to stay clean and sober. They can't smoke. They're expected to hold a calling. No wonder they don't stick around long. Expectations are high and there is no handout for those who can't keep up.


You really think that’s why people join is because they are looking for hand outs.. and they leave because they don't get it? WTH?

Can you get any more arrogant?
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_Mercury
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _Mercury »

harmony wrote:
Mercury wrote:Keep dreaming the dream harm. Maybe one day you'll get your wish and they will give you the priesthood!


if they were really going to give me my present wish, it would be to pay off my student loans.

I think you're destined to be disappointed, Merc. The tithepayers now aren't at all concerned about the inactivity rate of converts... why would that change? The poor and uneducated who join the church find it's not a free ride... they have to work for their food and rent. They have to stay clean and sober. They can't smoke. They're expected to hold a calling. No wonder they don't stick around long. Expectations are high and there is no handout for those who can't keep up.


Is that how you justify your participation in MormonCorp? Put a little thought into your reply this time.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_cinepro
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _cinepro »

Scottie wrote:We have proof that Joseph flat out lied about his polygamous activities. The LDS church has a long history of lies and deceit. So when you ask has something changed, no, nothing has changed.


I guess the big question is whether this attitude will have to change now that information has become so easily (and freely) accessible.
_harmony
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _harmony »

TAK wrote:You really think that’s why people join is because they are looking for hand outs.. and they leave because they don't get it? WTH?

Can you get any more arrogant?


That is what Merc implied. Or didn't you read the post that precipitated mine?

And yes, I can get a whole lot more arrogant.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Seven
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _Seven »

John Larsen wrote:I think the brethren are right on this one. Inoculation would only work if the Church history were not so damning and its truth claims false. As it is, it would just accelerate the rate of apostasy. The way to keep the membership is to stress that the only true knowledge comes from the brethren and it is impossible for the brethren to lead the Church astray.

This will keep them from getting all but the most damaged or incurious people as coverts in the post Google era. But it will allow them to keep the members they've got. Just so long as the keep having kids.


I believe inoculation will work because it will keep most Chapel Mormons from further investigating troubling parts of history.

I was never aware that Joseph Smith had practiced polygamy until I was married with children. It was a huge shock in my life and I felt very betrayed by the leaders and members who had misled me. It was that single issue [loss of trust] that led me to study in great depth 19th century polygamy and the Journal of Discourses. I would have never opened that can of worms had the church taught me some simple history in my childhood.

I think it's definitely a huge risk for most adults to be exposed but if you inoculate the children with apologetics, they won't blink an eye at someone sharing stories of Joseph Smith's wives, teachings on plural marriage required for exaltation, the Book of Abraham problems, kooky doctrines the church once believed, etc..
They will be shielded with answers to satisfy any critical material they could encounter and would feel no desire to look any further.

I had always known since childhood that Brigham Young had practiced polygamy so if someone had shared a story about his wives, it wouldn't have caused me enough distress to pick up VanWagoner's book.
"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." Joseph Smith
_harmony
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _harmony »

cinepro wrote:
Scottie wrote:We have proof that Joseph flat out lied about his polygamous activities. The LDS church has a long history of lies and deceit. So when you ask has something changed, no, nothing has changed.


I guess the big question is whether this attitude will have to change now that information has become so easily (and freely) accessible.


That attitude isn't going to change until God humbles the men in charge of the church's checkbook.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Mercury
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _Mercury »

harmony wrote:
TAK wrote:You really think that’s why people join is because they are looking for hand outs.. and they leave because they don't get it? WTH?

Can you get any more arrogant?


That is what Merc implied.


No, that's what you implied.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_harmony
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Re: in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

Post by _harmony »

Mercury wrote:
harmony wrote:That is what Merc implied.


No, that's what you implied.


Did you forget what you wrote? Let me help you:
You can't fix stupid. MormonCorp is going to degenerate further and further into obscurity, the poor and disenfranchized sucking up nourishment, hopefully bleeding it dry.


You're the one who said it. I'm the one who said those poor and disenfranchized that you so want to bleed the church dry find it difficult to live with the church's rules and expectations, and so they go inactive long before they can bleed the church dry. Kinda hard to bleed the church dry, when they won't give you much of anything unless you follow the rules and live up to the expectations.

Try to keep up, Merc. It's hard when you forget what you said.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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