In defense of the LDS Church

[_JohnStuartMill]

Homosexuality is a perversion of human sexuality wholly outside the laws of God and the boundaries he has set to human sexual relationships. The aggressive promiscuity is fundamental to homosexuality as a sexual fetish/orientation but tangential to its classification as a sexual sin and perversion, from a Gospel perspective.

Nobody gives a damn about the BS religion you had the misfortune to be born into. Stop offering fairy tales as evidence.

Yes it would be, but Nehor has not made that argument.

Wow. Droopy has admitted that being black is immoral. I can't say I'm surprised, given the Church he belongs to, but still, it's kind of shocking that he'd admit it.

You set up a transparent strawman here and knocked it over quite nicely, but the mustard won't be cut in this way. Homosexuality as a sexual orientation and as a sub-cultural self identification (Gay) is aggressively promiscuous because of inherent psychological, social, and spiritual features of the practice.

Really? Then why are lesbians especially monogamous?

The higher rates of social pathology among blacks as a group have to do with complex aspects of culture, not core aspects of gender identity that only inhere in a tiny demographic group (perhaps three percent of the population).

Yet, this explanation is not available for male homosexuality, because... it would undermine Droopy's argument and make him feel uncomfortable?

Interestingly, American blacks came out against Prop 8 in disproportionate numbers.

Sure, why not? They are disproportionately religious, after all.

[_The Nehor]

No, John has a point: not all homosexual relationships are promiscuous. Why would we condemn those relationships as immoral just because some other homosexuals fool around?

The argument that homosexuality is immoral because homosexuals are statistically more likely to engage in promiscuous behavior is idiotic. African-Americans are statistically more likely to engage in promiscuous behavior; Droopy must believe, then, that it's immoral to be black.

I think Droopy needs to experience some of the world outside his Utah compound.

Yes but MOST male homosexual relationships are. Look at the numbers. I would say this makes black culture more immoral in the same way I say homosexual culture is immoral.

[_JohnStuartMill]

No, John has a point: not all homosexual relationships are promiscuous. Why would we condemn those relationships as immoral just because some other homosexuals fool around?

The argument that homosexuality is immoral because homosexuals are statistically more likely to engage in promiscuous behavior is idiotic. African-Americans are statistically more likely to engage in promiscuous behavior; Droopy must believe, then, that it's immoral to be black.

I think Droopy needs to experience some of the world outside his Utah compound.

Yes but MOST male homosexual relationships are. Look at the numbers. I would say this makes black culture more immoral in the same way I say homosexual culture is immoral.

Then why are you letting these immoral darkies get married? Isn't that undermining the institution of marriage?

[_The Nehor]

Yes but MOST male homosexual relationships are. Look at the numbers. I would say this makes black culture more immoral in the same way I say homosexual culture is immoral.

Then why are you letting these immoral darkies get married? Isn't that undermining the institution of marriage?

I don't want to discuss this with someone who uses racial slurs to sensationalize a post.

[_JohnStuartMill]

I'm terribly sorry that the reflection of your bigotry distresses you so.

Why can't you just admit that, by the same standard you use to deny rights to homosexuals, you would be compelled to deny rights to racial minorities?

[_The Nehor]

I'm terribly sorry that the reflection of your bigotry distresses you so.

Why can't you just admit that, by the same standard you use to deny rights to homosexuals, you would be compelled to deny rights to racial minorities?

I'm pretty sure it's established that bigots use bigoted phrases. Congrats on your successful denial.

[_JohnStuartMill]

I'm terribly sorry that the reflection of your bigotry distresses you so.

Why can't you just admit that, by the same standard you use to deny rights to homosexuals, you would be compelled to deny rights to racial minorities?

I'm pretty sure it's established that bigots use bigoted phrases. Congrats on your successful denial.

I recognize that the word "darkies" is extremely offensive. That's precisely WHY I used it: to illustrate that your argument against gay marriage, which would deny equal rights to African-American couples if applied consistently, is itself repugnant. I am not a bigot: I favor marriage rights for African-American couples. Do you? If you believe in the arguments you've given against gay marriage, then you cannot possibly favor such rights for blacks.

[_The Nehor]

I recognize that the word "darkies" is extremely offensive. That's precisely WHY I used it: to illustrate that your argument against gay marriage, which would deny equal rights to African-American couples if applied consistently, is itself repugnant. I am not a bigot: I favor marriage rights for African-American couples. Do you? If you believe in the arguments you've given against gay marriage, then you cannot possibly favor such rights for blacks.

The homosexual marriage and African-American marriage are not comparable in that way at all.

My main argument (after that God commanded it) about why homosexual marriage should not be allowed is that homosexuality is innately repugnant. Asking me why I feel homosexuality is wrong is like asking me why I think pedophilia or murder is wrong. It simply is. I can quote studies of how damaging it is to participants but everyone seems to hold out that it's unfair to discriminate against this mythical ideal homosexual couple (who I have never met or seen or heard of in all my interactions with the gay community) despite how bad it is for everyone else. It seems the reponse is that not everyone participates in these things who is homosexual. I see it in the same light as I see computer-generated child pornography. I don't care if some people who view it will never go on to molest children. I WANT IT GONE.

Homosexuality is a perversion. I see nothing positive coming out of such relationships (note: relationships, not the people involved in them). I want to ask you if you have you ever had real interactions with the gay community or had close gay friends who would share what goes on with you. I think until you do that you're pontificating about a phenomenon you don't understand. I'll tell you what I found in it. Pain, despair, and hurt. I hate this sin. It is hurting my brothers and sisters.

[_Yoda]

I want to ask you if you have you ever had real interactions with the gay community or had close gay friends who would share what goes on with you.

What do you mean by "the gay community"?

Are you referring to activists?

I have some very good friends who are gay. They live pretty normal lives. They work. They have families, etc. They have ups and downs as couples just like any heterosexual couple has.

The gay friends I associate with are in their early 30's. I also have a very close gay friend who is my age, in his mid 40's.

Please elaborate on what you are referring to.

[Guest]

The homosexual marriage and African-American marriage are not comparable in that way at all.

My main argument (after that God commanded it) about why homosexual marriage should not be allowed is that homosexuality is innately repugnant. Asking me why I feel homosexuality is wrong is like asking me why I think pedophilia or murder is wrong. It simply is.

Your system of morality must be pretty bankrupt if it can't even account for the immorality of pedophilia an murder.

Please point out to me the error in this argument: "Asking me why I feel Mormonism is wrong is like asking me why I think pedophilia or murder is wrong. It simply is." According to you, there is none, and therefore Mormonism is wrong.

I can quote studies of how damaging it is to participants but everyone seems to hold out that it's unfair to discriminate against this mythical ideal homosexual couple (who I have never met or seen or heard of in all my interactions with the gay community) despite how bad it is for everyone else. It seems the reponse is that not everyone participates in these things who is homosexual. I see it in the same light as I see computer-generated child pornography. I don't care if some people who view it will never go on to molest children. I WANT IT GONE.

Yes, because your morality is based on what you personally find unappealing, not on any kind of rational basis. This is the same ethical reasoning that has led various civilizations to rail against the abomination that is interracial marriage, or the abject depravity of eating beans.

Homosexuality is a perversion. I see nothing positive coming out of such relationships (note: relationships, not the people involved in them). I want to ask you if you have you ever had real interactions with the gay community or had close gay friends who would share what goes on with you. I think until you do that you're pontificating about a phenomenon you don't understand. I'll tell you what I found in it. Pain, despair, and hurt. I hate this sin. It is hurting my brothers and sisters.

Actually, it seems that I'm some kind of outlier, because most of my gay and lesbian friends are in committed relationships that they've been in for years. I think this is because I'm relatively young, and that the young gay culture I interact with is more monogamous because it hasn't had to accommodate charges of "perversion" in their sexual identity as much as the older generation of gays has. It seems to me that people like you and Droopy are what's messing up these people's lives, NOT their God-given predilection for same-sex partners.