I've been suspended !

[_Mercury]

Well said. I meant my comment to be taken in a joking manner by those who shared a viewpoint. Often these comments can be seen as cruel by those not in the circle. I guess that means they shoulden't have been said in the first place eh? backbiting is not a very christian attribute.

In your opinion though, do you see how teaching someone to pray to a saint is in actuality a devilish teaching?

You see it as a devilish teaching in the same way they see that the angel of light who appeared to Joseph Smith was really Satan in disguise.

Mormons are tired for the reasons Harmony shared, but I think there is another reason, too. Mormons are emotionally and psychologically tired due to the stress of constantly needing to prove themselves worthy of the CK. In other words, I think the LDS emphasis on work results in tired, stressed believers. I don't mean to imply that LDS don't teach grace, as well, but works are emphasized in the LDS theology in a way absent in most protestant faiths. That results in more obedient followers (hence the lower premarital sex rate in LDS), but it also results in tired, stressed followers.

Break them down, weaken their minds and make them constantly in fear of gods retribution. Its a textbook pattern of getting others to do what you say.

Tithing does not just appear in Property Reserves bank accounts. No, there is a pattern of wearing members down in order for them to be pliable. Whether intentional or not it still represents a clear danger to the free will of humans.

[_Pokatator]

I am obviously not the greatest communicator in the world, I wish I had Kimberly Anns expressiveness (left brain), or Runtus smooth approach (right brain). I just call things as I see them and I can be brash (no brain). Its probably a sign of my redneck upbringing.

Unfortunately for both of us, Gaz, we're both in the same group.

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,

Of course we're tired. Large families, multiple callings, mandatory meaningless boring meetings, little if any down time. Some rousing music in church might help, and a fire and brimstone preacher now and then to wake up the old guys would probably be fun too. All the emphasis on reverence is detrimental to one's spirituality. Maybe if church was more interesting, more fun, livelier, we wouldn't have such a dismal activity rate.

If someone is having a miserable time in their large family, they are doing it wrong.

Multiple callings can be a burden. If they are, then they need to be toned down, or the workload appropriately dispersed among assistants.

The boring meetings issue has been addressed by the presidency. They have instructed that all of the meetings be cut down to neccesary only, and shortened when possible. They have also instructed that prayers be shortened. Long prayers at the beginning and ending of common meetings have been labeled innappropriate.

What do you think would be an appropriate "rousing" musical number for sacrament? I've seen some great musical pieces in our sacrament meetings, including acoustic guitar, violin solos, and of coarse great acapella performances.

I would love to see a great fire and brimstone preacher in sacrament. Great speakers can be rare. I think mainly because so many of the ward members don't study like they should. There is a reason the brethren encourage members to surround themselves with great books. Yet another commandment members fail to follow.

The reverence issue isn't really the issue. I think the real problem is a lack of desire in people to immerse themselves in the gospel. Could it be a misunderstanding as to what reverence means? As you say people might take the gospel to be boring. A person can be reverent and uplifting. Reverence simply means respect for the subject matter, not a funeral dirge in fear of the Lord.

What would you recommend seriously as to a good way to liven up sacrament?

[_Gazelam]

Beastie,

Mormons are emotionally and psychologically tired due to the stress of constantly needing to prove themselves worthy of the CK.

If someone is living this way, they are doing it wrong.

The gospel plan is called the plan of happiness for a reason. We are meant to be happy, and find good natured humor in our daily struggles.

I think the sense of weariness we find in some of the members is due to a lack of true spirituality. The Spirit is invigorating and energizing. People need to pray more, study more, and find the joy in the gospel that is meant to be there.

I think this can be difficult if people get too caught up in the things of the world. You can't enjoy the things of the gospel through the tainted eyes of what the world sees as enjoyable.