Behold! Carrie Prejean--Champion of Morality!

[_Fiannan]

Well, is a woman masturbating expressly forbidden in the Bible? I am pretty sure only male masturbation is condemned due to the messy seed-wastage issue. For all we know she is still a virgin and planning a 'real' white wedding. She is probably in the clear biblically. So her only problem is her no-nudity contract.

Actually masterbation is never even mentioned in the Bible -- the thing that got Onan terminated was pulling out rather than getting his sister in law pregnant. Does the Miss America thing have a "no nudity" provision? What if she grew up in a nudist colony? I would suppose there is a big difference between posing nude for some film or magazine and being nude in a not-meant-for-public-consumption context.

[_Jonah]

She made the tape (alone) for a boyfriend when she was 17 years old. Nobody is touching the tape because she was underage.

She chose not to include the making of her tape in the "Morals" section of her pageant application.

[_badseed]

This is kinda Old Testament but did anyone watch her on Larry King. Larry asked why she settled and she got all righteously indignant and finally pulls of her mic. It was pretty funny. in my opinion she acted liked a spoiled child taking her ball and leaving because things didn't go her way. Waaaaaaaaa!

Guess talking about gay peoples sex life is cool but don't go anywhere near hers.

[_Nomomo]

She made the tape (alone) for a boyfriend when she was 17 years old. Nobody is touching the tape because she was underage.

She chose not to include the making of her tape in the "Morals" section of her pageant application.

Not true. She was 20 when the tape was made.

[_why me]

A hypocrite is someone who says, "Do as I say, not as I do". Someone who says, "Do as I say, not as I did" is called a teacher.

Should a former drug addict never preach about the evils of drugs?

A former drug addict should teach about the evils of drugs, but should also be forthright about his or her former addiction.

Prejean has never been forthright about her past. She points out the moral failures of others while purposefully hiding her own.

Also, it would be nice to know when the tape was made and if Prejean was actively advocating a virtuous and moral Christian lifestyle at the time.


KA

The woman is now 22 years old. The tape was made when she was 17 and she made it for her boyfriend. She was on Larry King talking about it and said that she was sorry for what she done. Give the young woman some slack.

[_why me]

Agreed.

But aside from filming sex acts privately for private use, don't EV's pretty much condemn fornication also?

So, if she had a lover, doesn't this make her a fornicator?

In the EV mindset, will not fornication get you tossed into the fiery lake as well as homosexuality?

EV's allow for repentance. Besides, if she was not that religious when she was 17 but now has found god and turned her life around, she would be an EV poster woman of what can happen to someone when they find Jesus.

[_why me]

This is kinda Old Testament but did anyone watch her on Larry King. Larry asked why she settled and she got all righteously indignant and finally pulls of her mic. It was pretty funny. in my opinion she acted liked a spoiled child taking her ball and leaving because things didn't go her way. Waaaaaaaaa!

Guess talking about gay peoples sex life is cool but don't go anywhere near hers.

She pulled her mike off when larry began to take phone calls. There was an agreement that no phone calls should be permitted. But larry did not know this.

[_why me]

Granted I haven't attended many EV churches, but I can't imagine they harp on the supposed evils of masturbation like the Mormon church does. That said, I'm fairly certain it would be considered quite a lapse of virtue for an unmarried woman to masturbate while being filmed by her boyfriend. That, I think, crosses the line into porn. I'm doubtful that Dr. Dobson, or any other Evangelical Christian in good standing, would be supportive of it.

KA

Talk about hypocrisy! When she was 17, porn was definitely in. In fact, american society was highly 'pornosized'. Technically, it is called the pornofication of society. Carrie was much a victim as many young men and women these days are by the pornofication of society.

Now...she regrets what she did as many people regret what they did when young and inexperienced.

[_Roger]

Morrissey:

In the EV mindset, will not fornication get you tossed into the fiery lake as well as homosexuality?

In the EV mindset (and I speak from experience) merely being born will "get you tossed into the fiery lake as well as homosexuality" since we are all born with a sin-nature.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." - Romans 3:23.

This is what I think many people don't get in their rush to condemn EV's for alleged hypocrisy. Most EV's that I know do not claim to be better than anyone else--merely forgiven, having confessed their sins and asked for forgiveness.

By the way, I struggle with the implications of the doctrine. I reject Calvinism which suggests that the sin-nature is so overpowering that humans do not even have the power to choose to seek God's forgiveness until God performs a work of regeneration in their heart. This makes God responsible for creating sinners without the capacity to accept the free gift spoken of in Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16 & elsewhere. That is the classic free-will vs. predestination debate and I definitely come down on the side of free will.

But the larger point is that "In the EV mindset" any sin, no matter how great or how small, is sufficient to separate an individual from God and, by implication, "get you tossed into the fiery lake..." The only remedy for that "In the EV mindset" is to ask for Christ's forgiveness. And again, "In the EV mindset" we are all born with a sin-nature--even Mother Teresa, Billy Graham and Carrie Prejean.

[_MsJack]

In the EV mindset (and I speak from experience) merely being born will "get you tossed into the fiery lake as well as homosexuality" since we are all born with a sin-nature.

Sin-nature, yes, but it isn't agreed among evangelicals that we're born being counted as having committed sin and therefore going to hell. Many evangelicals believe that babies and small children are somehow innocent and going to heaven.

This was made clear in the awful Left Behind book series---very popular among evangelicals---when babies, small children, and the unborn fetuses of pregnant women were universally taken up in the Rapture. There was a section where the main characters remark about how the abortion clinics had no work for a few months after the Rapture. Cheezy I know, but it shows that there's debate among evangelicals on what exactly having a sinful nature means. I don't think I've ever met an evangelical who believed that dead babies (even unbaptized ones) are automatically hellbound.