LDS Conservatives Are Idolatrous?

[_Kevin Graham]

The funniest thing about this thread is how ignorant both droopy and bcspace really are to the number of LDS leaders who are either progressives, or indifferent to any of the current political persuasions. They'd have you believe they were all Right Wingers. By listening to them you'd think every General Conference would be a political conference where the Church directs the membership to vote anything but Democrat. But it is true, there are a significant number of BYU professors who lean strongly to the LEFT, and they make no secret about this. How is it then that they remain employed by the Church as educators?

[_bcspace]

The extent of James Faust's apostasy?

I would, in his and other cases, put his support of the Democratic party down as wrongheadedness, not apostasy.

In other cases, in which it was not party affiliation, but political philosophy/ideology that was in question, it would be another matter.

I would simply refer you back to question 7 of the TR interview.

[_Runtu]

Well, I have to say this has been an interesting thread. I never thought I'd hear a faithful church member question a General Authority's extent of apostasy based solely on party affiliation. Back when I was a believer, I figured that God called his apostles, prophets, and seventies by revelation to worthy priesthood leaders. Maybe I was wrong.

[_Runtu]

But it is true, there are a significant number of BYU professors who lean strongly to the LEFT, and they make no secret about this. How is it then that they remain employed by the Church as educators?

Apparently they lie in their recommend interviews,

[_bcspace]

The funniest thing about this thread is how ignorant both droopy and bcspace really are to the number of LDS leaders who are either progressives, or indifferent to any of the current political persuasions.

You miss the mark as ultimately, it is LDS doctrine one is compared to.

Well, I have to say this has been an interesting thread. I never thought I'd hear a faithful church member question a General Authority's extent of apostasy based solely on party affiliation.

You haven't been paying attention. I've said it for years on both boards.

[_Droopy]

Come to think of it, one of my mission companions was a member of the Partido Obrero Revolucionario (the Trotskyite breakoff of the Partido Comunista Boliviana).

I'm sorry your missionary companion believed in slavery, rigorous social control by the state of every possible aspect of human life, and the destruction of free agency.

God, however, will not ultimately be mocked.

[_Runtu]

You haven't been paying attention. I've said it for years on both boards.

Maybe so, but I must have missed it. Have you shared your thoughts about the GAs' possible apostasy with your priesthood leaders?

[_bcspace]

But it is true, there are a significant number of BYU professors who lean strongly to the LEFT, and they make no secret about this. How is it then that they remain employed by the Church as educators?

I don't know about significant, but many of them do get into trouble now and then. Why do we not excommunicate the lot of them? Wheat with the tares is the current, unstated in any manual you have access to, policy.

Maybe so, but I must have missed it. Have you shared your thoughts about the GAs' possible apostasy with your priesthood leaders?

With other GA's? Yes.

[_Runtu]

I'm sorry your missionary companion believed in slavery, rigorous social control by the state of every possible aspect of human life, and the destruction of free agency.

God, however, will not ultimately be mocked.

You obviously have never been to Bolivia. There are four institutions of control in Bolivia:

The government, which is basically an oligarchy run by a small number of elite families (though this isn't quite so much the case with Evo's government).

The Central Obrera Boliviana, which is the sole labor union to which every worker belongs.

The military, which keeps the government and the COB in line.

The Catholic Church, which mediates between the three other institutions.

Bolivia is nominally capitalist, but I'm not sure that "slavery, rigorous social control by the state of every possible aspect of human life, and the destruction of free agency" would be a change at all.

[_Kevin Graham]

Who in their right mind really believes that if the nation were 100% LDS at some point, that the government would not be changed into a theocratic system?

With a 50% inactivity rate and a 33% TR rate, I'd say that it's very likely the nation would not be changed into a theocratic system. With opposition in all things in effect, your scenario is not even possible under LDS doctrine until God Himself comes.

You know damn well that if the country converted LDS that the general membership would interpret this as the brink of the second coming anyway. But this is irrelevant since there is nothing in LDS doctrine that says the USA will not completely convert until the second coming. But you're avoiding the main question. If this scenario did play out, the Church would not be adopting the Libertarian system you guys pretend to be of God. Instead they'd implement a nation wide welfare system the same as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did in the past. The constitution would be scrapped, the concept of civil rights would be rejected the same way LDS leaders rejected it during the 50's-60's. Liberties would be significantly reduced as the church would seek to monitor and shape the behavior of the people at large, etc. (i.e. alcohol and tobacco and tea would be banned just as it is on all Church owned property). Special dress codes will be enforced as they are at BYU, etc. That's less freedom no matter how you try to spin it. The founding fathers would turn over in their graves since they feared religious zealotry as much as they feared big government.

So my point is that there is very little in Church history that would lead anyone to believe it would implement a political system identical to the ones you and droops love to envision. On the contrary, there is plenty in Church history that works against that fantasy.