The snake in the garden of eden

[_Bond James Bond]

I always assumed the whole thing was a metaphor: snake was a foreign penis that had came into the Garden and brought about a fall of innocence. Eve is the one who interacts with the "snake" after all.

I just made that theory up by the way.

[_Buffalo]

So you do not read that passage literally. How did you decide not to? How can we trust the words in the Bible if they rarely mean what they actually say?

How come you believe that there was no death before the fall? Maybe that was not literal, either.

Can dying of old age and natural causes really be considered a curse?

I'd love to see Hoops' criteria for deciding what is and isn't literal. After all, he takes the flood myth literally.

[_Jersey Girl]

So you do not read that passage literally. How did you decide not to? How can we trust the words in the Bible if they rarely mean what they actually say?

How come you believe that there was no death before the fall? Maybe that was not literal, either.

Can dying of old age and natural causes really be considered a curse?

How am I not reading it literally? I'm assuming your referencing "...on that DAY you will surely die." Fair enough. I believe a better rendering of the phrase (by the hebrew) would be "...on that day you will begin to die." so, yes, a literal reading of it works quite nicely.

And dying of old age, since before the curse there was no age, surely would be a curse.

WHAT TRANSLATION ARE YOU USING, HOOPS?

Where does it say "ON that day"????

Gen 2:17 isn't it? What translation are you using????


(Do I seem a bit frustrated? Excited? A little overly involved?)

:-D

[_Hoops]

I'd love to see Hoops' criteria for deciding what is and isn't literal. After all, he takes the flood myth literally.

I would love to see buffalo take an expressed thought and integrate it into his response. I would call for a cfr on this assertion but I know it's pointless.

[_Hoops]

Surely die and begin to die are very different. Do you have any references for your interpretation/translation?

Sure. Here's a discussion of both sides that seems worthwhile, if cursory.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Genesis_2:17


(You'll note the slight aside arguing for "day" in the creation story being any time period between two events.)

[_bcspace]

What precludes it?

You seem to have a double standard on what can be added or taken away from the scriptures.

There is evidence of women holding priesthood office, yet you claim there is not enough. There is no scripture banning women from the priesthood, yet you believe women are indeed banned.

I was being generous. There is actually no evidence for women holding priesthood office in the scriptures.

There is no evidence of Satan being in the garden, yet you claim it hasn't been precluded so....we should just assume he was the serpent?

Moses 4 has Satan speaking to Eve through the mouth of the serpent so yes, the scriptures say he was there.

[_Jersey Girl]

Surely die and begin to die are very different. Do you have any references for your interpretation/translation?

Sure. Here's a discussion of both sides that seems worthwhile, if cursory.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Genesis_2:17


(You'll note the slight aside arguing for "day" in the creation story being any time period between two events.)

That article doesn't address what the text actually says when it's printed right on top of the article itself.

[_Hoops]

I'd love to see Hoops' criteria for deciding what is and isn't literal.

But I'll answer for you anyway. The criteria is simple: take any passage literally first, then compare it with the it's context and what the rest of the Bible tells us. For example: JM brought up the point that this passage makes God a liar. We know from other scripture that this can not be so. So how do we reconcile the two?

[_Hoops]

That article doesn't address what the text actually says when it's printed right on top of the article itself.

Okay, I thought it was dealing specifically with the critical passage. I'll check again.

[_Jersey Girl]

That article doesn't address what the text actually says when it's printed right on top of the article itself.

Okay, I thought it was dealing specifically with the critical passage. I'll check again.

Please quote Gen 2:17 from whatever translation you are using and please cite the translation.

Thanks!