Questions about the God of the Old Testament

[_harmony]

I think you have a valid point about killing infants in warfare.

"the Old Testament is myth." Even if there is myth in the book, the Bible is a compilation of different sorts of writing from different times. There are important portions written as, or close to, the time events happened in real history. The later kings, prophets, captivity, exile and return from exile, would be examples. Yes Abraham is ancient story written down much much later.I think it is mistaken to characterize the whole library as being the same sort of story telling as Genesis.

Do you have external verification for any of the Old Testament incidents or characters?

Because the only verification I've ever heard of is an obscure reference to Kind David.

[_huckelberry]

[quote="harmony"]
Do you have external verification for any of the Old Testament incidents or characters?

Because the only verification I've ever heard of is an obscure reference to Kind David.[/quote]

King David? He is so obscure historically that there are people who doubt him. It is later kings that have outside historical correlation. I am at this moment only going by memory. Assyria has records of ongoing relationships with northern kingdom,,Ahab. and their conquring of said kingdom. Babylon has records of the conquest and captivity of Jerusalem, and kings involved. Jeremiah is records contemporary with those events. The other prophets are writing about then current events.

[_Shulem]

First, let's make one thing perfectly clear: The Jehovah of the Old Testament is not really God but is a spiritual figure (character) created by the prophets (men who lie) who wrote the Bible to get gain. They made it all up and their God was nothing more than a puppet on strings for their acts.

The Old Testament prophets were evil men who loved to control the lives of others and get gain as often as possible whether it be money or women. They were real skunks, full of murder and lust.

Everything about the God of the Old Testament makes me ill. I hate the sorry bastard and would shoot him dead if he stood before me. But he isn't real. That is NOT God. He was the figure created by men in order to control the people. The God of the Old Testment is truly dead. His fire went out long ago.

Paul O

[_Shulem]

But if you want Jesus, there's that baggage of the Old Testament god that comes with Jesus. What a dilemma.

Let's make another thing perfectly clear, sir. Jesus is NOT the Savior of the world. He did not die for you and he did not die for me. You are perfectly safe in your "sins". The Christian religion was born out of the ashes of Jehovah. It is simply another made up religion wherein men took control and wrote another story. It's all about getting power over people.

Isn't it nice to know that we can sin without having to worry about Jesus getting pissed at us! Yes, carry on my good friends. Eat, drink, and be merry. Jesus is dead.

Paul O

[_Franktalk]

For the Mormon and Christians readers, I have to ask, does the behavior of the Old Testament God bother you?

"Thus saith the Lord, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts." Exodus 11:4 - 5
Do you believe that the best way for God to free the Hebrew people was to kill the children of the Egyptians?

...How do you reconcile these actions with a just and loving God?

These issues concerned me when I first read the Bible. But let us take one at a time and see where it leads us.

The first born of Egypt dies. This is a tough one to figure out. What I will write is my view and as such may be filled with error.

First of all there is justice. There is justice on an individual level and justice on nations. If nations sin then judgment can be brought upon the people. If a nation allows a ruler to sin against God then a nation can receive punishment on earth. So let us see what God thinks of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

And what was Pharaoh doing to the firstborn of Israel?

Exo 1:22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

So Pharaoh was killing the firstborn of Israel. And how long had he been doing this? Remember that Moses was saved from being drowned by being taken in by the daughter of Pharaoh. So in essence the Pharaoh was in the process of genocide. It is also interesting to note that Pharaoh did not consider the Hebrews Egyptians. It is also interesting to note that Pharaoh charged ALL of his people to kill the Hebrews.

Now we have the stage set for Moses to come to Pharaoh and ask that he free the Hebrews. Of course Pharaoh says no and then many kinds of problems come upon Egypt. It is my view that God did not want Egypt to be one of the major players in history after the Jews left. We had the rise of Assyria then Babylon, next was Persia and then the Greeks, last was the Romans and Europe is still basically a busted up Roman empire.

So on a national level I see this as justice being served. Now justice or punishment on earth allows mercy in heaven. So on a personal level all suffered in Egypt but in heaven the righteous of Egypt would receive mercy. For their part in the work against the Lord they had already paid with punishment. Although it may sound odd it is an act of love that sometimes people are punished on earth.

[_Shulem]

It is my view that God did not want Egypt to be one of the major players in history after the Jews left.

Well, I'm glad to have you tell me what you think God thought. Have you considered the Egyptian dynasties that followed the supposed Jews leaving Egypt? [personal attack deleted].

Paul O

[_jo1952]

Well, I'm glad to have you tell me what you think God thought. Have you considered the Egyptian dynasties that followed the supposed Jews leaving Egypt? [personal attack deleted].

Paul O

Hi Shulem,

I would offer that you study the book of Daniel to understand who the major powers will be, according to prophesy, starting from Babylon through to the end times. Egypt is not among them.

Regards,

jo

[_sock puppet]

What's different about God-speak (~4000 BC to ~120 AD) that has been canonized from the later God-speak (~120 AD to current) that is not, that which you consider 'fallible human thoughts'?
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Huck notes, I thought I was clear. I think they both have the same kind of inspiration. Their location in history is different.
......................................

* * * *

why did God move ~120 AD clear, infallible speak that could be canonized to merely inspiring the fallible human thoughts?
...................................
I do not think he did.

So, no different inspiration (per you), but no canonization of all the post 120 AD God-speak.

Why not? The Christian world obviously sees a difference in the God-speak of ~4,000 BC to ~120 AD (i.e., worthy of canonical inclusion) but not the post 120 AD God-speak (i.e., not worthy of canonical inclusion). So your seeing no difference is at odds with this obviously different treatment of the God-speak of the two different eras identified. You seem to chafe at the suggestion that something is different, but the influences that come to bear on the canonical processes obviously see a difference, as do I.

by the way, thanks Hoops for a direct response.

[_Shulem]

Well, I'm glad to have you tell me what you think God thought. Have you considered the Egyptian dynasties that followed the supposed Jews leaving Egypt? [personal attack deleted].

Paul O

Hi Shulem,

I would offer that you study the book of Daniel to understand who the major powers will be, according to prophesy, starting from Babylon through to the end times. Egypt is not among them.

Regards,

jo

And the book of Daniel is just more Jehovah-prophet religious garbage. I wonder if you understand correct chronology. Go study the dynasties of Egypt and link them to the centuries in which they occured. You can go to the library and check out a book. That would be a good start.

Paul O

[_moksha]

How do you reconcile these actions with a just and loving God?

These primitive people were just trying to make some sense of the natural world and thus tried to draw some causal relationship between a child's death and the adulterous affair that preceded this death. Unfortunately, they also linked their erroneously vengeful conclusion of the death being a punishment for adultery and murder to being the will of just and loving God.

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