Can art save souls?

[_Quasimodo]

Words are not art? I would respectfully disagree.

DEATH, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so:
For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow
Die not, poor Death; nor yet canst thou kill me.
From Rest and Sleep, which but thy picture be,
Much pleasure, then from thee much more must flow;
And soonest our best men with thee do go--
Rest of their bones and souls' delivery!
Thou'rt slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell;
And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
And better than thy stroke. Why swell'st thou then?
One short sleep past, we wake eternally,
And Death shall be no more: Death, thou shalt die!

John Donne

OK, you got me. Great prose and great poetry are truly art. I meant that words describing "visual" art often fall sort... can't get away with anything on this board :).

[_Hoops]

[quote="Quasimodo"] I meant that words describing "visual" art often fall sort... can't get away with anything on this board :).[quote]
I agree.

[_Jersey Girl]

So Quasi, you don't even acknowledge Frost or Paul? Oh, I see how it is.

Yours truly,
Chopped Liver
;-)

[_Quasimodo]

Gadzooks! Tell that to Bob:

The Lovely Shall Be Choosers

The Voice said, “Hurl her down!”

The Voices, “How far down?”

“Seven levels of the world.”

“How much time have we?”

“Take twenty years.
She would refuse love safe with wealth and honor!
The lovely shall be choosers, shall they?
Then let them choose!”

“Then we shall let her choose?”

“Yes, let her choose.
Take up the task beyond her choosing.”

Invisible hands crowned on her shoulder
In readiness to weigh upon her.
But she stood straight still,
In broad round earrings, gold and jet with pearls,
And broad round suchlike brooch,
Her cheeks high-colored,
Proud and the pride of friends.

The Voice asked, “You can let her choose?”

“Yes, we can let her and still triumph.”

“Do it by joys, and leave her always blameless.
Be her first joy her wedding,
That though a wedding,
is yet—well, something they know, he and she.
And after that her next joy
That though she grieves, her grief is secret:
Those friends know nothing of her grief to make it shameful.
Her third joy that though now they cannot help but know,
They move in pleasure too far off
To think much or much care.
Give her a child at either knee for fourth joy
To tell once and once only, for them never to forget,
How once she walked in brightness,
And make them see it in the winter firelight.
But give her friends, for then she dare not tell
For their foregone incredulousness.
And be her next joy this:
Her never having deigned to tell them.
Make her among the humblest even
Seem to them less than they are.
Hopeless of being known for what she has been,
Failing of being loved for what she is,
Give her the comfort for her sixth of knowing
She fails from strangeness to a way of life
She came to from too high too late to learn.
Then send some one with eyes to see
And wonder at her where she is,
And words to wonder in her hearing how she came there,
But without time to linger for her story.
Be her last joy her heart’s going out to this one
So that she almost speaks.
You know them—seven in all.”

“Trust us,” the Voices said.

—Robert Frost

I LOVE Robert Frost! "Who's woods are these...".

Damn, an unfortunate turn of phrase and I'm denigrating Frost. How easy it is to mindlessly insult an entire world of great poetry.

I just meant that words are often strained when describing visual art. My apologies to Frost and a thousand others. And you, too, Jersey.

[_Morley]

Can art and literature and music save lives and souls as readily as religion?

Can it inspire us? Yes. Save your soul? I'm thinking, no.

As Quasi said, I suppose that depends on the definition of "soul."

A soul – in certain spiritual, philosophical, and psychological traditions – is the incorporeal essence of a person, living thing or object. Many philosophical and spiritual systems teach that humans have souls, and others teach that all living things and even inanimate objects (such as rivers) have souls. The latter belief is commonly called animism. Soul can function as a synonym for spirit, mind or self; scientific works, in particular often consider soul as a synonym for mind.

I've actively sought God most of my life. In spite of that, most of the so-called spiritual experiences I've had have been through the media of art, music, and literature; the beauty of nature; or the joy of learning and mastery. These have certainly saved my life and maybe my mind. They've cut the despair, that "dark night of the soul."

Frankly, I've never felt as much joy as I do now.

Thank you all for the replies.

[_Morley]

I still like Merlin's advice to the young Arthur in T. H. White's The Once and Future King:

"The best thing for being sad...is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then - to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn---pure science, the only purity there is. You can learn astronomy in a lifetime, natural history in three, literature in six. And then, after you have exhausted a milliard lifetimes in biology and medicine and theocriticism and geography and history and economics---why, you can start to make a cartwheel out of the appropriate wood, or spend fifty years learning to being to learn to beat your adversary at fencing. After that you can start again on mathematics, until it is time to learn to plough.”

This is excellent.

[_Hoops]

Per Blixa's friendly criticism:

Her upbringing, as you know as well as anyone, has little to do with the comments she's trying to make. As I understand it, you had a Mormon upbringing and you aren't exactly friendly to the Mormon church. Sure, you've renounced Mormonism (to what ever degree), I'm not sure she has renounced her catholic uprbringing nor am I sure she has not.

Based on her Catholic upbringing. I am unaware of her saying that she isn't Catholic.

Plus, she refers to god in many a song.

All kinds of people talk about God in their art - and message boards. I see no indication that she's talking about the catholic or even christian understanding of God. God means many different things.

That just doesn't seem very atheist to me.

It was a joke. I have no idea if she has any christian sentiment or not.

I would have to assume that her expressions are informed by her spirituality, past and present.

Why would one assume that? mine isn't. Doesn't seem yours is either.

Plus, atheism isn't a religion. So it can't be the religion that inspired her. It could be something else that inspired her, but not a religion.

I realize I don't know much, but I do know that. It was a joke.

[_huckelberry]

I would offer, tentatively and with great hesitation and in anticipation of being taught, that it's not the art that saves, but the creative expression. When we tap into that creative force that we all share, that spark of the Divine, we see things, we experience things, differently. Sometimes it's not lasting, sometimes it is. I think we all know some creation that has profoundly effected us.

The creative expression that speaks to us most profoundly is the one that expands us, makes us larger versions of ourselves. That, in turn, makes us more available to Life.

I enjoyed this thoughtful comment.

I am uncomfortable with the phrase, savings soles. I think art contributes important dimensions to living. Hopefully that can lead to saving but saving seems a load too large. A lot of good art might get squashed by expectations too heavy.

[_Quasimodo]

I am uncomfortable with the phrase, savings soles. I think art contributes important dimensions to living. Hopefully that can lead to saving but saving seems a load too large. A lot of good art might get squashed by expectations too heavy.

Saving souls is a big order. Once again, I think it depends on how one defines "soul".

I do think that a great work of art can move a person to seeing the world in a way that they haven't seen before. It depends on the person and how ready they may be for the experience.

Some people wander through a great art gallery, bored and secretly wondering when and where they can get a bite for lunch.

It reminds me a little of an old Simon and Garfunkel song (Dangling Conversations). "You read your Emily Dickinson and I my Robert Frost. And we note our place with book markers, that measure what we've lost".

For others, one image may change their entire lives.

[_huckelberry]

I do think that a great work of art can move a person to seeing the world in a way that they haven't seen before. It depends on the person and how ready they may be for the experience.

Some people wander through a great art gallery, bored and secretly wondering when and where they can get a bite for lunch.

For me a few museum visits have been treasured memories for a lifetime. I live out west in a small town with few museums near by. Portland has a small but enjoyable one. One afternoon at Chicago art institute hold some marvelous memories for me

Knowing some paintings in their physical reality helps my imagination enjoy certain painting that I have only seen in reproduction. A Picasso night fishing picture is a personal favorite I have never seen. It is like a palpable question and mystery.

Perhaps anything that pries open a question and mystery contributes to saving soles.