Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

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_consiglieri
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _consiglieri »

Droopy wrote:I wonder how many times I'll have to ask consig what it is that makes Joanna Brooks a "believing" LDS equal in her faithfulness to the Church's teachings to a "TBM," and what truth claims she still accepts as true that would place her within the class "believing" Mormons?

I think we're on number four now, and he's still dancing...


It is you who will have to educate me on how to measure another's faithfulness, Droopy.

Go ahead.

I know you can do it.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _consiglieri »

Darth J wrote:But she has too many fish to fry with her finger in the dike as the winds of change drown her in the bitter galls of apostasy like a mountain . . .


. . . thrown into the cracks of doom.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _consiglieri »

Jason Bourne wrote:What do you think will happen?


If history is prologue to the future, the LDS Church will be about twenty-five years behind in dealing with this.

If we estimate that 2005 was the year all this bloggernacle stuff started, then I would look for something to change around the year 2030.

What the actual active membership will be by then is anybody's guess.

What is known is that the official Church statistics will show continued growth.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Madison54
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _Madison54 »

I find the comments over on Meridian regarding Hancock's review to be very interesting. Actually, there seem to be more in support of Brooks than critical (although there are plenty of those too).

Many have speculated that Brooks has not been disciplined because she hasn't been through the temple, for what it's worth.

Here is how she describes herself:

“I’m a writer who provides cultural commentary. I am not special. It’s a common part of what it means to be a person of faith, to question. I’m just willing to say out loud that I wrestle with my faith.”

In the early 1990's she gave her diploma back to BYU in protest of their treatment of professors.

After receiving her doctorate in English from UCLA, she decided she no longer felt comfortable attending church because of her disgust with the way Mormon leadership aggressively campaigned against same-sex marriage.

But she has returned to activity now.

Brooks’s “loving criticism” of her church doesn’t sit well with some Mormons. "BYU poli-sci professor and blogger Ralph Hancock is one of her most vocal critics." On his Bulwark blog, he often questions Brooks’s “Mormonism” because of her liberalism, feminism, and stance on gay rights.

I have read Brooks's book and I liked it ok. I'm not real excited about her style of writing, but it was an enjoyable read. She's definitely NOT your typical Mormon, but I respect her right to believe and attend on her own terms. I do wonder what will happen when her 2 young daughters enter the YW's program.
_Droopy
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _Droopy »

It is the Mormon Church who is abandoning and denying it's distinctive doctrines, Droopy.

Or haven't you been paying attention?

Joanna's views actually run the other way.

Funny, that.




Oh, I see what the game is now.

Thanks, consig.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_consiglieri
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _consiglieri »

Droopy wrote:
Oh, I see what the game is now.



Then perhaps you have figured out you lost.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _consiglieri »

Bingo!

My post is up at Meridian!

Take that, Professor Hancock.

Harvard PhD my ass!

I also just e-mailed Joanna a show of support.

All the Best!

--Consolidarieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Droopy
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _Droopy »

All you need to see is this:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... t_theology

And take a look at any of her numerous writings supporting open homosexual behavior and the redefinition of marriage and gender.

Nice testimony. I can pen one just as poignant and heartfelt. However, nothing in that text alters the actual positions, philosophies, and beliefs she expounds that are utterly incompatible with Church doctrine, including its moral standards regarding human sexuality. The extremely broad and epistemologically ambiguous claims of belief she makes in her testimony are a giveaway. In point of fact, looking it over, it doesn't look, feel, or sound like a traditional LDS testimony at all. Strip away all the terse academic verbiage and preliminary narrative, and what you have is this:

I believe in a merciful, powerful, compassionate God who is available to all who search.

I believe as is taught in 2 Nephi 26: 33: God “denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female . . . all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.”

I believe in prayer, and Mormonism is the language I pray in.

I believe that we are profoundly connected to our ancestors.

I believe in a merciful and powerful God, a Mother and Father in Heaven.


It was within Mormonism that I learned to conceive of God as both male and female, Mother and Father.
(this is a gross perversion and misrepresentation of the concept of a Heavenly family and of a Heavenly Mother, as taught and implied in LDS doctrine, and something clearly plucked from the very fever swamps of second, if not third wave feminism in which she has apparently waded for much of her academic and intellectual life)

I believe in a life of courageous and rigorous searching.

I believe that God neither provides us with nor expects us to have all the answers, but that to live great questions with an open and humble heart is to experience the grace and the presence of God.


This reads and appears as no LDS testimony I've ever seen or heard. Nowhere does she declare that she "knows" anything to be true. Nowhere does she declare that she has a witness within herself as to any of the Church's truth claims. All of her statements are statements of belief, not sure, inward knowledge given by the Holy Spirit through the principle of direct, personal revelation.

Nowhere does she actually mention that she has a "testimony" of anything in the normative LDS sense of that term. Nowhere does she declare that she knows the Church to be true, and the only true and living Church upon the earth; knows Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God, knows that Joseph did indeed see and speak with the Father and the Son, knows the Book of Mormon to be the word of God, knows Thomas S. Monsen to be the Lord's prophet on the earth today, to the Church and to the world, and his counselors and the Twelve prophets, seers, and revelators; knows that if we follow the Brethren, we will be spiritually safe and protected from the storms and calamities prophesied to come upon the World, knows that the church's standards and teachings on social and cultural issues are of Jesus Christ through his anointed servants, and the "warning voice" of the Brethren to the world is inspired etc.

Indeed, her testimony sounds to me more like a kind of academic bio with religious overtones, than a testimony of any kind most committed Latter day Saints would recognize.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _Droopy »

consiglieri wrote:
Droopy wrote:
Oh, I see what the game is now.



Then perhaps you have figured out you lost.



You really should stop acting like Bluffalo (an burned out adolescent D&D addict with a roach clip in one hand and a 20 sided dice in the other) and actually engage the principled criticism of Brooks that has been made.

Either that, or stop pretending to be an "intellectual" and just be a drive-by snark.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Chap
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Re: Witch Burning in Progress at Meridian Magazine

Post by _Chap »

Droopy wrote:... Nowhere does she declare that she "knows" anything to be true. ...


Definitely a case for the hemlock, then.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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