The Anonymity Issue

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_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Kishkumen »

Eric wrote:Don't take my word for it. Besides, Peterson was cleared of any wrong doing by a business ethics professor at a Los Angeles community college.


The details of that would be very interesting to know.

Was this ethics professor anyone close to either or both of you? LDS?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Juggler Vain
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Juggler Vain »

Yahoo Bot wrote:But to experience the dissonance of trying to be a church-goer on the one hand and be an anonymous critic on the other hand is something that, to me, Jesus would condemn...If you're anonymous and a bishop or high councilor and posting anonymously against the Brethren and the church, well, then I see a pretty significant moral failure.


I get the idea that there is an element of hypocrisy in not acting consistently with one's personal beliefs. A person who is trying to reconcile a deteriorating relationship with the LDS Church (and/or family, friends, business associates, etc.) by outwardly acting as a believer, but who inwardly does not actually believe, has to deal with the psychological consequences of that hypocrisy. It's a common personal struggle that people talk about all the time. But Jesus would be an idiot to not recognize that there are more factors at play, influencing the non-believer to make his/her choices, than an abstract "moral failure." Your analysis suffers from fundamental attribution error.

Mormons believe that Jesus is smart enough to get that whole concept. In fact, to account for possible bias, he has even experienced the psychological consequences of hypocrisy (somehow, through his Atonement). That's why Mormons take seriously Jesus' admonition to "Judge not." They aren't in a position to make that call -- only he is. Why do you spend time on the internet doing something only Christ is able and authorized to do?

Yahoo Bot wrote:So, if you're anonymous and outta the church and posting anonymously, well, then you're just without courage.


Courage isn't always virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy. Particularly when anonymity is necessary to protect your loved ones, livelihood, or life. Joseph Smith took advantage of anonymity, supposedly to avoid legal liability, not just harassment. How do you judge Joseph Smith on that point?

-JV
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Kishkumen »

Yahoo Bot wrote:If he had the threatening PM posts he claims to have, he'd post them.


That's against the rules here, Bot, as you well know.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Kishkumen »

Juggler Vain wrote:Mormons believe that Jesus is smart enough to get that whole concept. In fact, to account for possible bias, he has even experienced the psychological consequences of hypocrisy (somehow, through his Atonement). That's why Mormons take seriously Jesus' admonition to "Judge not." They aren't in a position to make that call -- only he is. Why do you spend time on the internet doing something only Christ is able and authorized to do?


Well said.

Courage isn't always virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy. Particularly when anonymity is necessary to protect your loved ones, livelihood, or life. Joseph Smith took advantage of anonymity, supposedly to avoid legal liability, not just harassment. How do you judge Joseph Smith on that point?

-JV


What say you, Bot?

I love it when another smart poster joins the conversation. Thanks, JV!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Stormy Waters

Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Stormy Waters »

Hey Yahoo Bot, is the church cowardly to do newsroom releases without a name attached to them?
Let me guess. You don't hold the church to the same moral standard that is applicable to everyone else.
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Kishkumen wrote:
Yahoo Bot wrote:If he had the threatening PM posts he claims to have, he'd post them.


That's against the rules here, Bot, as you well know.


Hmm. I guess you're right. Eric's claims about PM conversations I had with him cannot be refuted without, on my own, violating the board rules.

Joseph Smith took advantage of anonymity, supposedly to avoid legal liability, not just harassment. How do you judge Joseph Smith on that point?


I don't think it was necessary for Joseph Smith to have used a pseudonym since even his enemies knew who was doing what, and so I wouldn't have agreed with it had I been asked. I wasn't.

Your analysis suffers from fundamental attribution error.


I suffer from an aversion to jargon.

Hey Yahoo Bot, is the church cowardly to do newsroom releases without a name attached to them?


We've had this discussion before. A corporation (and the church is a corporation sole) is considered the author of press releases. In addition to press releases, you've got a boatload of manuals which don't have authors' names attached to them. The manuals are not anonymous.
_Eric

Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Eric »

Kishkumen wrote:
The details of that would be very interesting to know.

Was this ethics professor anyone close to either or both of you? LDS?


Ask and ye shall receive, Rev. Kishkumen. Yes, that ethics professor just so happened to be a Mormon apologist, FARMS contributor, and Liahona-level FARMS donor (no thanks to Bro. Ed Snow, however).

Surely you remember the thread where BYU's Dan Peterson said:

Daniel C. Peterson wrote:In any event, I'm happy to be forthright on this: I don't see anything even remotely ethically problematic in calling someone's attention to a post on a public board.


(Where was that attitude during the Mitchell trial?)

Pages 7 and 10 are my favorite, but classic DCP can be found throughout the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6758&start=126
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Kishkumen »

Yahoo Bot wrote:We've had this discussion before. A corporation (and the church is a corporation sole) is considered the author of press releases. In addition to press releases, you've got a boatload of manuals which don't have authors' names attached to them. The manuals are not anonymous.


One of the things I love about corporations is the limited liability. Some might argue that this is a moral imperfection in its own right.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Kishkumen »

Eric wrote:Ask and ye shall receive, Rev. Kishkumen. Yes, that ethics professor just so happened to be a Mormon apologist, FARMS contributor, and Liahona-level FARMS donor (no thanks to Bro. Ed Snow, however).


Yes, that is what I thought. Business ethics and multi-level marketing go together splendidly.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
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Re: The Anonymity Issue

Post by _Fence Sitter »

It's a good thing the Church would never try and defend itself by using a hack writer writing under a pseudonym and a fake PhD because that would be cowardly.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/18/robert-c-webb/

God forbid that Deseret News Press would print a book by such a person under the copyright of Heber J Grant Trustee-in-Trust Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Church-Christ-Latter-Translator/dp/0548048878/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335373623&sr=1-3
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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