The cost of leaving

[_Yoda]

I would like to ask Stormy Waters a question. Stormy, was the main reason your wife left because you left the Church, or were there other factors that were just as pressing?

I am trying to figure out exactly how much the Church has played a role in this.

For example, if you called her up tomorrow and said, "I am going back to Church," would she take you back?

Bumping my questions for Stormy.

[_Stormy Waters]

I would like to ask Stormy Waters a question. Stormy, was the main reason your wife left because you left the Church, or were there other factors that were just as pressing?

I am trying to figure out exactly how much the Church has played a role in this.

For example, if you called her up tomorrow and said, "I am going back to Church," would she take you back?

Bumping my questions for Stormy.

She said that she would have to see a change in me before she would reconsider. Basically I'd have to attend church diligently for a period of time before she'd consider coming back. To be fair there are some other minor annoyances she's mentioned.

[_Bond James Bond]

She said that she would have to see a change in me before she would reconsider. Basically I'd have to attend church diligently for a period of time before she'd consider coming back. To be fair there are some other minor annoyances she's mentioned.

Sounds awful. Are you her husband or her child?

[_Yoda]

I would like to ask Stormy Waters a question. Stormy, was the main reason your wife left because you left the Church, or were there other factors that were just as pressing?

I am trying to figure out exactly how much the Church has played a role in this.

For example, if you called her up tomorrow and said, "I am going back to Church," would she take you back?

Bumping my questions for Stormy.

She said that she would have to see a change in me before she would reconsider. Basically I'd have to attend church diligently for a period of time before she'd consider coming back. To be fair there are some other minor annoyances she's mentioned.

So, would she be happy if you simply "went through the motions", or does she insist that you believe?

Has your bishop counseled her that separation is best?

[_Stormy Waters]

I would like to ask Stormy Waters a question. Stormy, was the main reason your wife left because you left the Church, or were there other factors that were just as pressing?

I am trying to figure out exactly how much the Church has played a role in this.

For example, if you called her up tomorrow and said, "I am going back to Church," would she take you back?

Bumping my questions for Stormy.

She said that she would have to see a change in me before she would reconsider. Basically I'd have to attend church diligently for a period of time before she'd consider coming back. To be fair there are some other minor annoyances she's mentioned.

So, would she be happy if you simply "went through the motions", or does she insist that you believe?

Has your bishop counseled her that separation is best?

It would have to be real which makes it pretty much impossible

We haven't involved the bishop at all.

[_RayAgostini]

To any Mormons out there I'd like to issue you a challenge. Try leaving the church. Then see if you can say that it isn't a cult.

It isn't a cult, but where you live, and different circumstances and experiences, can make it seem very much so. There are people who actually believe that Catholicism is a cult, and people like Ian Paisely make it seem so.

[_Drifting]

To any Mormons out there I'd like to issue you a challenge. Try leaving the church. Then see if you can say that it isn't a cult.

It isn't a cult, but where you live, and different circumstances and experiences, can make it seem very much so. There are people who actually believe that Catholicism is a cult, and people like Ian Paisely make it seem so.

Ray, what is it about the Church that means it's not a cult but that, say Scientology, is?

[_RayAgostini]

Ray, what is it about the Church that means it's not a cult but that, say Scientology, is?

Maybe many people don't see the differences, but I see them very clearly. I think Mormonism has what I've always called "cultic strains", but I don't believe it's a full-on "cult", and it has never been subjected to any serious investigations by the Australian government or media.

Scientology: The Ex-Files. As "New" religions progress, they seem to become tamer, but maybe Scientology hasn't yet learned its lesson?

[_Drifting]

Ray, what is it about the Church that means it's not a cult but that, say Scientology, is?

Maybe many people don't see the differences, but I see them very clearly. I think Mormonism has what I've always called "cultic strains", but I don't believe it's a full-on "cult", and it has never been subjected to any serious investigations by the Australian government or media.

Scientology: The Ex-Files. As "New" religions progress, they seem to become tamer, but maybe Scientology hasn't yet learned its lesson?

Thanks Ray, but what attributes does a cult display that the Church doesn't?

[_Tobin]

I apologize if it came across that way then. It was not my intention to imply that. It was my only my intention to have him speak with the Lord and not do the traditional Mormon heartburn thing which just irritates me.

you don't need to apologize. I'm having a little trouble with a philosophy that I interpret from your words. You don't like the way he is doing things (traditional Mormon way) and wish he would communicate with God more instead.

1. How is communicating more with God going to make his situation different? This is a sincere question, as I'm wondering the very same thing.

In my view, that is (or should be) the true aim of Mormonism. To bring one to God, talk to God face to face and to know and do what God asks. Joseph Smith didn't have a feeling, so why should Mormon members/leaders do things based on feelings? He saw God. Book of Mormon prophets didn't do things based on feelings, they sought out and spoke with God.

2. What exactly is "The Traditional Mormon Way" you refer to?

I don't view traditional Mormonism as being all that true. I view it as a perversion of the gospel in fact. And the way it got there is through this feelings doctrine of truth discovery. Instead of employing reason, knowledge, and inspiration directly from God - they base their views on heartburn.