Zion is gay leary but not gay stupid

[_Nightlion]

What is your answer to the intersex condition?

Purely a physical anomaly. The odds of it happening are rare but sufficient for us to praise God every time it does not occur.

[_Nightlion]

And therefore by extension my theology renders those who valiantly program the heart, might, mind and strength to value the love of God above all else such that when cut loose in mortality they will find it again these are superior to those who don't. I fail to see the problem here.

Only if one begins with the assumptions you start with does this gender issue have anything to do with showing love to God. Nothing indicates that people made choices to be born a particular gender, race, or what have you outside of outmoded LDS theology. Nothing. You also seem to be saying that people could still choose to change. If they chose once, why not choose now, right?

Wrong. For some people there is no choice. They have an overwhelming attraction to the same gender. They can't choose to be heterosexual and they never could. Things actually do happen to us that we did not choose. I do not understand this predilection in Mormon thought for taking a lower status and theologizing that as the person's own fault simply so that those of a higher status can pat themselves on the back.

What the world needs is not some BS "just so story" about why the gays are the gays but equal treatment for all. If anything should kindle the wrath of a just God, it is unfairness covered up and justified by crappy myths.

I can tell by how poorly you follow what I say that you too resist making any sense of this.

The love of God example had nothing to do with gender and sexual orientation. It was simple another example of pre-existence diligence at gaining an advantage in this life.

I assume most mortal burdens are not our fault. Birth defects, the parents we get, race, religion, country can all be at the caprice of God. I discovered a spiritual reality that opened up and understanding that sexual assignment requires a free will commitment for it to take. This cannot be left up to chance. It is worked out individually as they chose. If we were not sentient beings after our spirit body birth and resulting sexual assignment and for billions of years afterward I might agree that sexual preference was left up to chance. Who would sit by in heaven for a couple of billion years and allow that? NOBODY. I am only saying that the elements are there consistent with scripture and The Apocalrock and my gut, knowing all that I do, that we chose, regardless of assigned gender, how we intended to proceed on that.

There are multiple variables which each soul could pick from. I think you fail to consider the great weight of my argument as to WHY the 1/3rd chose to resist advancing to the seed stage of eternal progression. That really is the hammer that drives the nails or reason here.

I am nothing about provincial Mormonism. I have had my own original theology for more than thirty years. I never said we chose our gender. We chose how to assimilate our gender assignment, made obvious by the fact that assimilation was required to go from a fullness of light and truth to a prudent focus per assignment.

I fail to see any such kind of mechanism in race assignment. Apples and oranges.

As far as someone being able to assimilate from gay to straight I do think it possible. Not when they scream and cry and cut themselves off from God blaming him. Taking responsibility and comprehending the actual mechanism that worked confused results might actually be enough to harrow up one great soul to try. Who knows until then how much help the power of God could help with that. This is not the EVERGREEN thing I am talking about. This understanding actually takes sin out of the equation and puts it back up in the pre-existence as if you need to adjust that now remotely from mortality and see if you can tweak it. I think it would be monumentally difficult for the first one. The second the same but eventually the sophistication of experience could hone down the science to an art.

With all the attitude though, hardly shall I hold my breath. Without taking full responsibility for our own choices the power to change is not there.

[_Kishkumen]

I can tell by how poorly you follow what I say that you too resist making any sense of this.

I think I understand it pretty well. I just don't agree with it.

It was simple another example of pre-existence diligence at gaining an advantage in this life.

The implicit position being that the choice that resulted in being gay was an inferior choice. I don't see how that is true.

It bothers me that you see one way of being that someone obviously hasn't chosen in this life as something they should bear as a responsibility that they took on in a prior existence they can't possibly remember. It is like a tiny child being injured by reaching out to touch something he was curious about, and then his parents telling him years later in response to questions about his scars, "hey, it's your fault you saw that shiny penny and chose to reach out to touch it."

What kind of a$$hat parent does that?

Except it is worse, because there is nothing wrong with being gay. Nothing. The fact that other human beings are too stupid, bigoted, and small to accept others' differences does not make it wrong. Some of the world's greatest human beings are gay. They did not get there by making a wrong choice in a prior life. They are a blessing to the world as they are. For all you know, Jesus was gay.

I assume most mortal burdens are not our fault. Birth defects, the parents we get, race, religion, country can all be at the caprice of God. I discovered a spiritual reality that opened up and understanding that sexual assignment requires a free will commitment for it to take. This cannot be left up to chance. It is worked out individually as they chose. If we were not sentient beings after our spirit body birth and resulting sexual assignment and for billions of years afterward I might agree that sexual preference was left up to chance. Who would sit by in heaven for a couple of billion years and allow that? NOBODY. I am only saying that the elements are there consistent with scripture and The Apocalrock and my gut, knowing all that I do, that we chose, regardless of assigned gender, how we intended to proceed on that.

The fact that you single out gender for this kind of choice is logically inconsistent. Maybe the joke is on you, Nightlion, and the truth is that God was happy to have gay children walking hand in hand in the premortal world, and hoped they would be even happier sharing gay affection in mortal bodies. The problem is that in a Telestial world of sin and despair, a bunch of fascist jerks decided that it was easy to pick on gay people because they were different and there were fewer of them.

Maybe the truth is that the gays are God's special chosen people, and we will all be judged especially harshly if we keep persecuting them by treating them like second class citizens and subhumans.

There are multiple variables which each soul could pick from. I think you fail to consider the great weight of my argument as to WHY the 1/3rd chose to resist advancing to the seed stage of eternal progression. That really is the hammer that drives the nails or reason here.

I differ from you in that I believe there was one choice. The choice to come to earth or not. There were not all of these other subchoices that explain why I have brown hair, why Jamie is gay, and why you get divine messages from a mountain. Once you start introducing other choices, there is no stopping the multiplication of them. That is the flaw in your thinking that should cause you to reconsider this. Sometimes ideas have unintended consequences that could get real nasty. They often come from a bad place, sometimes unbeknownst to us, that bad place being our own fears and confusion, and they lead nowhere good. Introducing all of these premortal choices simply opens the door to the theologization of any random prejudice someone has. It is bad juju.

As far as someone being able to assimilate from gay to straight I do think it possible. Not when they scream and cry and cut themselves off from God blaming him. Taking responsibility and comprehending the actual mechanism that worked confused results might actually be enough to harrow up one great soul to try. Who knows until then how much help the power of God could help with that. This is not the EVERGREEN thing I am talking about. This understanding actually takes sin out of the equation and puts it back up in the pre-existence as if you need to adjust that now remotely from mortality and see if you can tweak it. I think it would be monumentally difficult for the first one. The second the same but eventually the sophistication of experience could hone down the science to an art.

With all the attitude though, hardly shall I hold my breath. Without taking full responsibility for our own choices the power to change is not there.

Listen, Nightlion, I like you a lot. And I think your message of repentance and humility is a good one. I don't know where this has come from. Maybe it is just the prominence of the controversy in our times with the advent of gay marriage as an issue. Who knows? All I can say is that I reject this teaching, and I think I have very good reasons for doing so. Regardless of your personal sense that this was a revelation, it is opening a theological Pandora's Box that is as good as reintroducing Mormonism's ill-advised race theology, even if you imagine the two have nothing to do with each other.

The simple fact is that introducing all of these premortal choices aside from the choice to come to earth or not is an invitation to justify people's worst prejudices, and I will have no part in it.

[_Yoda]

The simple fact is that introducing all of these premortal choices aside from the choice to come to earth or not is an invitation to justify people's worst prejudices, and I will have no part in it.

[_Nightlion]

The simple fact is that introducing all of these premortal choices aside from the choice to come to earth or not is an invitation to justify people's worst prejudices, and I will have no part in it.

This is baby wanna moo moo thinking. Only one choice? Then what? We spend a billion or so years never ever making another choice of any consequence? The seriousness of our choices in this life make reason stare at the thought of only one choice in a previous eternity. Come on.

I get that people REALLY do not want to have to think all that much about God and stuff like that. ONE thought ought to suffice. There there now sleepy bye sleepy bye sleepy beddie bye bye. Awe.

I for one have had more than a few gay people inflict great offenses in my life. I have always showed these people kind consideration nonetheless. And not just for a moment but for a lifetime. I do not agree that there is nothing wrong with being gay. It is a serious dysfunction against the will of the Father. Perhaps there were bunched of preferred company social groups in the pre-existence that were simply inevitable. Or perhaps such a thing was roundly forbidden and that would explain why gays et al are so anal (no pun intended) about being allowed to be free and have rights even when that makes no sense at all. Are my heterosexual rights protected? What rights? Stupid.

Are people who are obnoxious protected? Is it a crime to tell them to shut up? Should there be zero tolerance for discrimination against everything? I hate rap music....you're FIRED! How far down the rabbit hole of the absurd will dumb turds fall?

Ya know, if Beethoven was gay or Mozart or Leonardo none were celebrated for it. They were celebrated for being great otherwise. Keeping as much of your intelligence alive as I suggest were the motives of gay people explains why many talented people reach genius levels.

I do not accept it as a justification. I am good with their deliberate choice to hold on to a fullness of light and truth and so their earth life be damned. I hold them yet responsible for all the offense they cause smudging over the line butt to elbow with the rest of us in this world. That is all part of the cost they were willing to bear.They are not victims as much as they victimize. That is my prejudice. I think they willfully accepted these terms.

To think that God winks at their offenses is numbingly bad form.
And Jesus was not a sexual being. That is why his mom and brothers though he was a little off and beside himself when he stepped out into the world. That is why the men of Nazareth hated him. Imagine how many fair maidens of Nazareth fell in love with Jesus. He did not have the pipes. He was cloned from seedless stalk.

A screaming gay in-law, but the macho side is all most people see, (that's a cultural thing) preyed upon a delicate woman to marry him just so he could have a son. Lots of miscarriages before that happened.....??... and then divorces her, gets in money trouble and remarries and divorces her and gets in money trouble and remarries and she is a nut case of course. How convenient so he bears no responsibility at all. To his parents he remains the apple of their eyes, because she is just nutzo. Hell, when I went to pick him up from his mission with my wife without ever having seen him or even a picture of him I realized the instant that I walked into his apartment that he was gay. My wife would not believe me until she got a phone call from a jilted rich loverboy who wanted to do some violence and out him to his family. This man has militantly succeeded in alienating my wife's loyalty and affections as well as much of my children's. He has alienated all the in-laws with whom I have never been welcome to share the slightest thing about religion.

I remain a paragon of virtue and righteousness to suffer this guy.

And he even had the ego enough to invite his gay nephew to go with us when I agreed to fix the sheetrock in his ruined house (his wife's actually, before they got married) in Las Vegas, Nevada. So while I was solving his problem making his home marketable, from which he won a huge profit as he got paid twice for it because of a settlement, here go these two queers strutting around the house shirtless in shorts (both returned missionaries) for all the world, I had to think that they were trying to seduce me. LOL oh Lord!. Well, the nephew pretended he was working for free and so should I. Bull crap! Then they were off to the Bellagio Hotel for gay thrills no doubt. I must be some kind of heart throb for these guys as even my enemies lust on me. It don't make my blue eyes blue. Bubba ba boo. lol

And that is not the worst story of my life regarding the viciousness of gay people.

I get that many people have gay friends who are the salt of the earth with them. Sort of like how my gay bro in law is salt of the earth with his parents. He plays them for a payback. I can believe that some people are class acts. Gay is not true because gay has an end. Sexuality will be removed and all they can be is friends. Smart and funny no doubt.

I vented not to allay your resistance to my rational. Just to vent. Tis gay pride week No?
I think the rest of us should celebrate with at least one gripe about gays. A season to vent with no consequences. Awe. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMAh!

[_Nightlion]

The implicit position being that the choice that resulted in being gay was an inferior choice. I don't see how that is true.
.

I thought I was explaining the actual mechanics of how gay happens. And I thought I even provided some real apologetic for them and gave some excellent rationale as per why they would go that way. Just because I figure that gay can be changed does not make me a bigot. I am being consistent in rationally applying the mechanics again. Did I not take SIN out of the equation? If anyone wants to try. Just sayin'

All around us in this is a theological mine field of exciting new thoughts which everyone ignores. The duality of God! Christ's work drew more from the feminine! God is a sexless being that defaults to the masculine but never far from the feminine! Spiritual prepping in the pre-existence! And the sexual stuff..............gee!
P.P.P.P.P. Pre-existent Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

I should get the Nobel Prize for Religion........oh, yeah, so such category, right? What comes close to that? I know that I wont get nominated out of here. Humph!

[_Shulem]

Lion-boy's head has spoiled into a state of utter rotteness and confusion. You people can have him! He is now on permanent IGNORE! Good bye, Lion-boy. I never want to hear from you again. I am excommunicating you from my life. Go jump off a high bridge.

Paul O

[_Kishkumen]

Well, it is clear to me from your last two posts that you have had bad experiences with gay folks, and now you hold those bad experiences against all gay folks. This is pure bigotry, which you now want to clothe in the disguise of holy revelation. That is disgusting. I am done discussing this with you, since there is little you could say to overcome the obvious fact that your bigotry is the issue, nothing else.

I feel badly for you, Nightlion. I guess I had hoped for more than this. Petty bigotry did not produce good revelation on race, and it sure as hell isn't bringing you good revelation on gender. You are teaching false doctrine here, pure and simple. My heart goes out to you. I hope you repent.

[_just me]

Well, it is clear to me from your last two posts that you have had bad experiences with gay folks, and now you hold those bad experiences against all gay folks. This is pure bigotry, which you now want to clothe in the disguise of holy revelation. That is disgusting. I am done discussing this with you, since there is little you could say to overcome the obvious fact that your bigotry is the issue, nothing else.

I feel badly for you, Nightlion. I guess I had hoped for more than this. Petty bigotry did not produce good revelation on race, and it sure as hell isn't bringing you good revelation on gender. You are teaching false doctrine here, pure and simple. My heart goes out to you. I hope you repent.

Amen.

I am glad to learn that a shirtless gay is a predatory gay. Never knew that before. I wonder if the same holds true for straights...

[_Nightlion]

Well, it is clear to me from your last two posts that you have had bad experiences with gay folks, and now you hold those bad experiences against all gay folks. This is pure bigotry, which you now want to clothe in the disguise of holy revelation. That is disgusting. I am done discussing this with you, since there is little you could say to overcome the obvious fact that your bigotry is the issue, nothing else.

I feel badly for you, Nightlion. I guess I had hoped for more than this. Petty bigotry did not produce good revelation on race, and it sure as hell isn't bringing you good revelation on gender. You are teaching false doctrine here, pure and simple. My heart goes out to you. I hope you repent.

Amen.

I am glad to learn that a shirtless gay is a predatory gay. Never knew that before. I wonder if the same holds true for straights...

Can you not help but minimize everything I say? Gawl! It's a long drive to Vegas from Salt Lake City. I was picking up on purposeful gay grooming all the way down. If I was a bigot why would I have had compassion to help them even though I knew full well that these were my enemies. I could have ditched and gone home to leave them helpless. I am a Christian and saint, duly proven yet again.

The bigotry is on you. Bigots against truth. Nobody lives a fantasy more than the fearful.

Somebody quote me......cause I am smokin'!