LDS Church not Right Wing

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_krose
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _krose »

KevinSim wrote:
krose wrote:Their embarrassingly slow change in finally recognizing blacks as full members

The LDS Church is slow, I'll grant you that. What's embarrassing about how slow it is?

It was certainly embarrassing to me as a missionary, to have to come up with a lame rationalization for a policy that was still in place years after the civil rights movement.

It's kind of odd that an organization with an alleged direct link to divine revelation would lag so far behind the curve of societal evolution. One might think such a link should put them ahead of the curve.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_KevinSim
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _KevinSim »

café crema wrote:No he was talking about girls camp.

Why Me, could you clear this up? I'm of the opinion that in the mentioned post you were talking about youth conference. café Crema is of the opinion that you were talking about girl's camp. Which were you talking about?
KevinSim

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_KevinSim
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _KevinSim »

café crema wrote:Well one big difference is that the vast majority of Catholic men hold the same "lesser priesthood" that women do, so over all men and women are on more equal footing in the Catholic church.

That's true.
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_KevinSim
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _KevinSim »

krose wrote:It was certainly embarrassing to me as a missionary, to have to come up with a lame rationalization for a policy that was still in place years after the civil rights movement.

It's kind of odd that an organization with an alleged direct link to divine revelation would lag so far behind the curve of societal evolution. One might think such a link should put them ahead of the curve.

So is there some compelling reason to believe that God will always approve of how society has evolved? That God has some kind of an obligation to always be politically correct, as defined by societal norms?

I personally am leaning toward the opinion that God never desired for blacks to be denied the priesthood, but that God still thought Brigham Young was the best man to preserve the continuity of the restored gospel, even though he knew that Young had some prejudices he would incorrectly conclude had been revealed to him by God. But I haven't entirely ruled out the possibility that God actually had a reason for denying the blacks the priesthood, a reason that went away in 1978. I don't know how one goes about concluding with certainty that no such reason could have existed.
KevinSim

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_krose
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _krose »

KevinSim wrote:So is there some compelling reason to believe that God will always approve of how society has evolved? That God has some kind of an obligation to always be politically correct, as defined by societal norms?

Society at large? No. But the organization he is supposedly closely guiding, with his chosen mouthpiece at its head? I think that's not too much to expect.

I personally am leaning toward the opinion that God never desired for blacks to be denied the priesthood, but that God still thought Brigham Young was the best man to preserve the continuity of the restored gospel, even though he knew that Young had some prejudices he would incorrectly conclude had been revealed to him by God. But I haven't entirely ruled out the possibility that God actually had a reason for denying the blacks the priesthood, a reason that went away in 1978. I don't know how one goes about concluding with certainty that no such reason could have existed.

You have every right to come up with that explanation, although to me it looks a lot like an apologetic, an attempt to rationalize acceptance of the policy.

I have no idea if you lived through that era, so I don't know if you can relate to the conflicts the reversal caused. As for me, after initially welcoming the belated change in policy, I was left with a growing distrust in the idea that our leaders were actually being guided by revelation. Four years (and one slowly crumbling "testimony") later, I was completely out of the church.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_Tobin
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _Tobin »

I'm actually glad to see KevinSim is coming to the same conclusion I reached a while ago about BY and the man-made, evil doctrine that he implemented banning blacks from the priesthood. And krose is not incorrect that the fact it was carried forth by many Mormon prophets over a long period does not speak well for them and how inspired they were. It is shameful they didn't embrace MLK, who I very much consider a prophet, when he was alive and marched with him demanding equal rights for blacks. But, I don't view the fact that human beings are flawed, believe incorrect things, lead churches, have failings, and are uninspired unless they seek the Lord as any indication as to the truthfulness of the Gospel nor does it have any bearing the existence of God.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_cafe crema
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _cafe crema »

KevinSim wrote:
café crema wrote:No he was talking about girls camp.

Why Me, could you clear this up? I'm of the opinion that in the mentioned post you were talking about youth conference. café Crema is of the opinion that you were talking about girl's camp. Which were you talking about?


If you look back he was responding directly to my post which mentioned girls camp and Relief Society nothing about youth conference.
_why me
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _why me »

café crema wrote:
If you look back he was responding directly to my post which mentioned girls camp and Relief Society nothing about youth conference.


I was talking about youth conference or a young adult conference. Both are coed.

However, I do believe that at girls camp, the young women's presidency kicks in with volunteers and these volunteers are usually the mothers of some of girls present. The priesthood may have a speaker to speak to the girls but not much more.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _why me »

KevinSim wrote:
café crema wrote:No he was talking about girls camp.

Why Me, could you clear this up? I'm of the opinion that in the mentioned post you were talking about youth conference. café Crema is of the opinion that you were talking about girl's camp. Which were you talking about?


Youth conference. See my post above.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_cafe crema
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Re: LDS Church not Right Wing

Post by _cafe crema »

why me wrote:
KevinSim wrote:[
Why Me, could you clear this up? I'm of the opinion that in the mentioned post you were talking about youth conference. café Crema is of the opinion that you were talking about girl's camp. Which were you talking about?


Youth conference. See my post above.


Then why did you respond to my comment about girls camp without clarifying you meant youth conference? And yes 2 priesthood holders are required to be present at girls camp 24/7.
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