Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

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_Kishkumen
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Kishkumen »

Ceeboo wrote:Indeed!

In addition to inappropriate and terribly destructive (which I certainly agree that it clearly is) I would suggest that it is also very divisive, largely unnecessary, and extremely hurtful to the people (perhaps entire families) who find themselves as the target of these things.

In my opinion, apologetics should be centered in apologetics, and should be completely silent in the personal judgement arena. Sometimes, having no voice speaks volumes!

Peace,
Ceeboo


Well put, Ceeboo. I agree with everything you have said here. Criticize the argument, refute the book or article, etc., but denigrate the person? No. Not that.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Kishkumen »

Cylon wrote:Wow, that's quite the story. Thanks for posting that link, Ray. I had heard of some of the issues Bro. Barrett talks about there, but I had never read his account.

And yes, I actually do think there are lessons for the current situation. in my opinion, the fact that John Dehlin has not been excommunicated after years of airing the church's dirty laundry speaks volumes as to the change in how the leadership deals with these situations. I'm not sure if you were implying some point about DCP himself, though. Maybe you could clarify.


Huh! Raul McQuivey was my stake president and sent me out on my mission. I had no idea he was this way.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_moksha
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _moksha »

RayAgostini wrote:That was DCP's genius, that he could draw both scholars and "ordinary people/members" into the conversation.


Plus, the ordinary people saw Dr. Peterson as manning the battlements against the slings and arrows of history and skepticism. During Dan's watch they could sleep easier both night and day.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Kishkumen
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Kishkumen »

moksha wrote:
RayAgostini wrote:That was DCP's genius, that he could draw both scholars and "ordinary people/members" into the conversation.


Plus, the ordinary people saw Dr. Peterson as manning the battlements against the slings and arrows of history and skepticism. During Dan's watch they could sleep easier both night and day.


I thought it was also touching to see the mentally unstable given a seat at the apologetic table.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Joey
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Joey »

Well just finished 18 at Park Meadows and stopped by this wonderful little brewery here called Wasatch Brewery.  Good ales but very green lagers.  I love summer in Utah - so beautiful.

Still can't find a sole who's heard of Peterson, FARMS, MI or even Bradford.  But most knew of BYU!  Seems to be a non event issue in the press/media as well.

But I got to give credit to this Kevin Graham and his posts about Peterson's situation.  I agree.  He brought it all upon himself via lack of quality and realism.  Peterson and his groupies have been isolated in Provo Think for some time.  They been shielded from within the "I'm good - you're good" of self recruited and self congratulating "supposed" scholars.  And he did, as Mr. Graham pointed out, love to do the "hit and run behind moderators" most all his thousands of message board posts.

He was outstanding at dropping names of everyone important that he knew (while no one recognized such names) to justify his excuse and existence.  But I think his own admission that "FARMS scholarship isn't rejected but rather ignored by the secular academic community" has finally hit home.  The significance of a Gardner West Draper book publication, a meaningless Matt Roper FARMs article, or a fictitious Hamblin Watson Letter just won't cut it anymore up in Provo. Not that it moved the needle very much before!

So the only name being dropped now looks to be his own from the MI/FARMS website!  
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_lulu
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _lulu »

"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]

But if they paid attention to it, they'd reject it.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Garbo
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Garbo »

Kishkumen wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:This is the same guy who attacked me for calling Wells Jakeman an idiot. Once you understand what a whack-job pseudo-scholar Jakeman was, and how Dan Peterson likened him to Einstein, suddenly it doesn't come as a surprise that he has decided to bond with William Schryver. This is the same guy who considers despicable characters like Lou Midgley, close friends.


I think you have really hit on something here. What we see at work here in the vestiges of FARMS that lived on in the editorial staff of the Review was a little clique of apologist-warriors who were also ideological bedfellows. As much as they are the intellectual children of Hugh Nibley, they are also the spiritual children of Ezra Taft Benson, who implicitly equated Soviet communism with the secret combinations in the Book of Mormon.

Moreover, it is my considered opinion that, truth be told, Will Schryver did more to bring about this setback, and potential downfall, of Daniel Peterson than any other single person in his association. As others tried to pull Dr. Peterson forward into the current times and the expedience of dialing it back a few notches, Will, as he boasts, was filling Dr. Peterson's head with conspiracy theories and parables about the modern sons of Mosiah. You see in all of this a bunker mentality, one that reflects Schryver's own paranoia and narcissism.

Doctor Scratch may have been a clearinghouse for information on the Maxwell Institute, but it is Schryver who held forth day after day on MDDB, spinning his tales of betrayal, turncoats, enemies, conspiracies, and secret actors working against Mormonism. All of this helps bring along the disastrously ill-timed attack on John Dehlin, and the paranoid backlash of the Deseret News piece (which Schryver takes credit for). I might add that Peterson was not the only victim of Schryverology; he was merely the most prominent one.

Of course, all of this will be laid at the feet of the alleged external enemies as it usually is. But any objective observer will see in Daniel's blog and his posts over the past month on MDDB a growing anxiety and paranoia filled with images of Obama the anti-christ and Dehlin, son of Mosiah. He is the victim of his own apocalyptic scenario, which, much like other apocalyptic scenarios, is usually most disastrous for the people who indulge in them (Waco, Jonestown, etc.). Others look on in amazement wondering how this person could go off the rails so spectacularly, but I think the signs are all there. And Schryver was the evil genie spurring him on for his own selfish purposes.

This is very interesting. I haven't been around here for a long time, but you may recall that I know a little about Schryver. Anyway, I came back here today after reading Peggy Fletcher Stack's article in the Salt Lake Tribune.

What is interesting to me about what you wrote above is that I have seen, first hand, that Schryver is actually quite charismatic and persuasive in the eyes of the same kinds of people who get all teary-eyed and proud at handcart pioneer stories and tales of how Lot Smith and Porter Rockwell "rode with the Lord" during the Mormon War, two putting to flight a thousand and all that.

What surprises me is that, if you're right about Schryver's influence on Peterson, then it occurs to me that Peterson is not nearly as intellectually sophisticated as he likes people to believe.

All the same, interesting post. If these "outcasts" decide to form some kind of writing club, I will be curious to see if Schryver has something in the first issue, fresh off the press at the local Kinko's. :lol:
"You don't have to be married to have a good friend as your partner for life."
(Greta Garbo)
_Kishkumen
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Re: Dan Peterson's Poor Judge of Character: Redux

Post by _Kishkumen »

Garbo wrote:What is interesting to me about what you wrote above is that I have seen, first hand, that Schryver is actually quite charismatic and persuasive in the eyes of the same kinds of people who get all teary-eyed and proud at handcart pioneer stories and tales of how Lot Smith and Porter Rockwell "rode with the Lord" during the Mormon War, two putting to flight a thousand and all that.

What surprises me is that, if you're right about Schryver's influence on Peterson, then it occurs to me that Peterson is not nearly as intellectually sophisticated as he likes people to believe.

All the same, interesting post. If these "outcasts" decide to form some kind of writing club, I will be curious to see if Schryver has something in the first issue, fresh off the press at the local Kinko's. :lol:


Hey, Garbo. Nice to have you back. Now that further light and knowledge is descending upon the situation, I am beginning to wonder whether Schryver's presence was, from an institutional perspective, merely providing further kindling for the flames. I think there is no doubting that he fed into the paranoia and persecution complex of the classic-FARMS folk. But did this only help along the inevitable demise of classic-FARMS, moving up the date of its death?

I doubt that we will ever be able to untangle fully all of the contributing factors and weigh their respective impacts. At this point I am loathe to credit or blame any one individual too much. Times are changing, longstanding politics remained at play, and the classic-FARMS fellows were not doing themselves any favors. Schryver was certainly a part of the latter, but he was only adding his extra weight to the acceleration pedal that Lou, Dan, and Bill were already pushing down collectively and with a certain childlike unawareness of the coming dusk.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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