Nightlion wrote:Nightlion takes a shot at $500.00 smackers.
Rev. 19: 20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.Allow me to back into it here first. This scripture clearly shows that both the Beast and the False Prophet are actual persons who are cast ALIVE into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. Why are they not killed with the rest of the wicked by the sword of him who sat upon the horse? Because they cannot be killed in the usual manner. These characters are like Cain, both sons of perdition, one of them could actually be Cain but I do not know that. It is simply one possibility.
The1Guy wrote:The word "Beast" is not as "clear" as you would like it to be when you say it is
an actual person. If you take the word "Beast" literally and not symbolically or figuratively, it can only be a beast of burden or a wild beast (an animal other than human). Symbolically or figuratively it can be anything you want it to be that has beastly attributes. Yes, it could be a person. But it could also be a car, a weather pattern, a lesson learned, a mentality or, as Yuri Wyler wrote, a "force or overpowering paradigm or system that expands throughout the world like a ravenous wild animal." Surely you can see, it is not so clear. But if you insist that it is a person, then identify that person by name or some identifier so we can know who he is without mistake. Wyler made it very clear. If it is Cain, which was your conjecture, make a case for it by relating
every verse in
Chapter 13 to him so that it makes sense, as Yuri Wyler did. And then make sure that you take into account that there are two Beasts to identify and make compatible with the rest of the narrative. Yuri Wyler did.
Revelation 17:
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.Again here it is mentioned that the Beast goes into perdition. So he must have been a prominent figure who actually got the gospel right, as Cain did, you remember that Adam and Eve rejoiced that Cain was a child born to them who would believe the gospel. As all their other children seemed incapable of comprehending it. This, by the way, the fact that Adam and Eve had many children before Cain is why he had confederates immediately after killing Abel. Like the Mormons, the world is guilty of adolescent misunderstandings of scripture. Ahem!
In the matter of counting the seven kings we need to be wise and understand that these are not the same kingdoms as was shown to King Nebuchadnezzar with the Babylonian, Meades and Persian, Greek, Roman, Two Roman Empires and the toes mixed with miry clay which is us today. Those kings are not all the same.
If Nero was one of the kings that would simply be singular to him and not having to do with the Roman Empire in general. Not all the kings of the beast that carry the Great Whore need be sons of perdition. They only need to command or facilitate an apostasy where the gospel is compromised and defeated. Each of these separate apostasies count for one of the harlots which the Great Whore is mother to. The Great Whore is of course the Church of the Devil. All who are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life are members of that Church in our lost and fallen condition here in this natural world.
Now let me directly critique one thing from The Thin Wall of Hell: 666 by Guy Fawkes
If a voice declared a revelation about this most important subject where only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life escape the torturous judgments, rather than be so overtly concerned with proving who exactly the beast is; a more benevolent source would be teaching people HOW TO GET THEIR NAMES WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE. Don't you think? It's not like recognizing the beast alone will suddenly qualify you for having you name written in the Book of the Sanctified. That's a whole other thing all together. Every dispensation of Heaven's revelations are concerned the most with teaching the real gospel all over again. No exceptions. Just thought I would toss that out to gut the entire premise all at once. Sorry.
The1Guy wrote:What is the first of the Ten Commandments? "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." In what form can other gods come and what happens when other gods are worshiped?
Blasphemy, which leads to damnation. John is warning us about the beast because it becomes an object of worship, if we are not careful.
[b]Revelation Chapter 13:3-4 "...and all the world wondered after the beast. (Verse 4) And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"
[/b] Is it not important to know what the beast is, if by worshiping it we could find ourselves outside of the LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE?
Counting the seven kings has a problem. Do we count the apostasy before the flood? If so then Cain would be one of the seven. He being a son of perdition also qualifies him for the being the eighth who is one of the previous seven. Another problem is that for the world to be dazzled seeing him who was, and is not, and yet is, that beast-fella would have to be recognized by the last days generation. Nimrod presided over the apostasy after the flood. It never mentions it directly but since he was fully in league with Satan it figures he was also a son of perdition. Everyone who knew Noah also knew and probably received the gospel if they were intelligent enough. So here we have two possibilities for either or both the Beast and the False Prophet.
Another possibility is the fact that the Seventh is probably also the Eighth because the world needs to recognize him as someone who, was, is not, and yet is. Interestingly enough to qualify as one of the kings of the Beast, if having to preside over or command the seduction of an apostasy where the gospel is officially defeated in our day it necessitates that the LDS Church fall into abject apostasy while this character facilitates.
Then he would need to pass away, and suddenly return. It cannot be a president of the LDS Church because none of them in our lifetime have received the power of the gospel to qualify for Son of Perdition. That is just a fact folks, written in the substance that no man in a hundred years of Momonism had taught the gospel aright with an eye single to facilitate the people getting their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. it is just not happening.
We will all know who this is in the day when this character reappears and all the world marvels and counts him as a god, whom a man in authority will canonize as divine, serving as the false prophet. Now perhaps Yuri Wyler is correct enough about the ten kings who have power with the beast, that they might be ten corporations that control everything on earth in their day. Could be. But the Beast and the second Beast are not Europe and America. They are actual persons who can be judged and punished for their abominations and blasphemies.
Revelation 16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.Here is another scripture which personifies again all three as individuals. Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.I suggest that the beast coming up out of the sea is irrelevant.
The1Guy wrote: John is beginning to describe one of many visions that he sees. Everything he relates has meaning in helping us understand what he sees. There is nothing he describes that is irrelevant in depicting the beast. Nightlion, I am afraid you are merely admitting, once again, that you can't do the verse by verse refutation and plug in a logical alternative. As I go through your effort, I see many individual verses that you simply don't respond to or state that they are irrelevant.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.I also suggest that the animal representations are also irrelevant. Simply dramatic flair like coming up out of the sea.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.This is interesting. This deadly wound could be something which happened to the Eighth kind of the Beast when he was one of the Seven and part of how he is recognized in our day knowing that this character was nearly killed once and recovered. It does not mean that after he reappears this incident will then occur. To mention that he had a deadly wound and was healed is secondary to the fact that he was, is not and yet is. That is the marvelous event that staggers the imagination of the entire world at once. The fact that he also recovered from a deadly would is simply also true.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?Formal Satan worship is reinstated.
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.Once the Beast is established he will after three and a half years retire from the limelight as the False Prophet will carry on in the power of the first. The original Beast will remain to get cast into the lake of fire alive at the end.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.This is a continuation of today's academia. The seven mountains where the Beast sits are the seven hills of Rome from where modern academia derived once the domination of the Holy Roman Church clergy was compromised with the printing of the Bible and all men could learn the truth for themselves. They switch controlling domination by administering the rights of passage to degrees of renown and opened doors of credence which they invented and turned the world deftly away from God and after the delicacies and fortunes and luxuries and comforts of the world's riches and the inventions of Satan's lying wonders that are based upon electricity which is the power of the air, which is Satan's power.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.This is the war with the saints whereby the Eighth who is one of the previous Seven qualifies again by causing an apostasy of real saints and overcoming them. And for sure overcoming the pretending saints and the would be saints who know the gospel being stragglers from the previous apostasy, as well as a few good ones.
This means that after the fall of the LDS Church, which is already history, there needs be a real Zion arise that will be compromised by the Beast and the False Prophet. Only the center place of Zion is promised to remain secure. Wo, wo, wo, unto the inhabiters of the earth.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.Here we have the kicker, the catcher in the rye, the purpose of life is to get into this book of life. How? By believing in Jesus Christ and actually doing what he commanded. Which is offer absolute subjection in the depths of humility as a child meekly submits to his Father in all things. Return to God that one thing in this world which is truly yours, your agency as an acceptable sacrifice with a broken heart and contrite spirit that repents of not already being in with God, that is your greatest and perpetual sin. Only those who are thereafter visited of the Father's power and partake of the power of Christ's atonement in the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost have their names taken and recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life. AMEN.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.A warning NOT to get crazy and start killing the Satanist for the saints to be patient and overcome this diabolical event by laying down your life rather than save it. Even the two witnesses in Jerusalem shall subject themselves to being killed by the Beast who will make war with them. ( Rev. 11:7)
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Coming up out of the earth would also mean up from the bottomless pit like the other Beast. This is why I believe both these characters will be sons of perdition. Men who both previously betrayed the gospel and fought against God. Only one is recognized as having been known before. That does not preclude the other form also being a previous king, just that it is not readily known.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.This is going to be more obvious than something which we are all already guilty of today. It will be a deliberate event and nothing mystical or symbolic so as to be anything and everything imaginable. It relegates and governs and is a tool to facilitate control. When Satan rules absolute control is always in force.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.This is the great mystery. It is both the number of a man and the number of his name. I am not going to say what I think about it. It does no good to know beforehand anyways. When the Beast takes power the game is over. There is no chance of preventing any of this. We can be Zion and if truly sanctified as such we can rebuke nations from afar and keep the world back. If only we are. Sounds like Zion will be shoddy and not perfect but a remnant will survive to welcome both Zion from above (Enoch's city) and Zion from beneath (the Lost Tribes of Israel who come up from the bowels of the earth when Zion is born in a moment as the earth travails and brings forth her strength. Jeremiah 16) Without a Zion in the middle these two great events will not happen until there is a real Zion here.
The1Guy wrote:Read the challenge criteria once again. You have fallen short. But I will look into your charity. If I find it is a worthy cause I will make a donation...the size of which will be determined by its value and who will benefit. Thank you for your effort.
Do not know if I have jumped the hoops 1guy has set up. It's relative to his subjective admission anyways.
If I have succeeded in any wise please make a check payable to The Apocalrock Visitor Center which is the charity of my choice.
P.O. Box 694 Bountiful, Utah 84011
