Paying tithing online....SLC having a change of heart

[_Drifting]

So I was looking into paying tithing online...looks like Salt Lake City has had a bit of a change of heart. All of the previous links that allowed a member to make tithing donations online are now dead:


http://www.ldsclerks.com/index.php?titl ... adquarters

After a bit of searching online, I found this blurb:

We’ve been contacted by the Church Donations Department and asked to remove the links to the Electronic Donation Information form, among other things. This method of payment apparently wasn’t intended to be used by the general membership of the Church. We’ll be posting a new article with more information shortly. Please check back here for a link and more details.

Uh huh...

Then exactly who was it for...?

[_RayAgostini]

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Seems appropriate for the master of finer semantics.

The last line of verse 23 also needs a bold emphasis:

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

If a person desires to be an active, worthy temple-going member of the Church, well, bishops don't make up the worthiness requirements, and they are not at personal liberty to sway them according to whim.

Before they can go to the temple members have to be interviewed by the bishop, and also by the stake president (unless it's not their first time going to the temple, in which case one of the stake president's counselors can interview them). So imagine a member fronting up to a member of the stake presidency and trying to explain why his or her bishop gave him or her a "pass" when he or she is not a full tithe-payer.

If this is ever going to change, then it will have to come from the First Presidency, and until then no bishop is authorised to act contrary to current directives. It's not 8%, it's 10%.

[_Equality]

a member tells the bishop whether or not she is a full tithe payer and the bishop takes her word for it. It's as simple as that.

Pahoran knows this is a lie. Such a slick and slimy one, he is. Silver-tongued and slippery. He knows it's nowhere close to "as simple as that." There would be no need for "tithing settlement" at all if it were as simple as that. Tithing settlement is used to guilt and shame members into paying more. It's as simple as that. If it were as Pahoran falsely suggests, then the "are you a full tithe payer" yes-or-no question during the temple recommend interview would be the only time the Bishop would ever ask the question. If the member said "yes," that would suffice. Instead, there is this big production of tithing settlement at the end of every year. The church does not trust its members to be honest in answering the TR questions, so it has the Bishop examine the members' donation records and interrogate the members face to face in a power-imbalanced environment. That's why the church wants to make it more difficult for members to send donations to SLC directly (unless they are big-money bigwigs like Mitt Romney)--so the Bishop knows exactly how much has been paid. And, of course, Pahoran knows this but feels a higher duty to "lie for the Lord" in his efforts to make the church appear to be much more benign than we all know it to be.

[_RayAgostini]

The church does not trust its members to be honest in answering the TR questions, so it has the Bishop examine the members' donation records and interrogate the members face to face in a power-imbalanced environment.

Nearly every worthiness question in a personal interview is based on trust in the member's honesty. A bishop isn't going to know everything you do in your personal and private life, for example in "Honesty in dealings with others", or even whether you fully keep the WofW.

Naturally if a person says they "Sustain the President of the Church and his authority, and other general authorities and local church leaders", then come on Mormon Discussions are rat on them as corrupt, liars, money and power hungry, their outward profession of sustaining and support can be questioned. I guess that's why some post anonymously, so they won't be discovered.

[_madeleine]

One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. - MLK

Now those are words worthy of being called prophetic.

[_Pahoran]

a member tells the bishop whether or not she is a full tithe payer and the bishop takes her word for it. It's as simple as that.

Pahoran knows this is a lie. Such a slick and slimy one, he is. Silver-tongued and slippery.

The antecedent of that "this" appears to be somewhat ambiguous. Permit me to fix it for you:

Pahoran knows [Equality's post] is a lie. Such a slick and slimy one, he is. Silver-tongued and slippery.

Done.

Actually, your self-praise is rather overdone. While your lies are certainly slippery and slimy, they're too clumsy to be slick, and too loud and boorish to be "silver-tongued."

He knows it's nowhere close to "as simple as that."

Actually he knows it's exactly "as simple as that."

There would be no need for "tithing settlement" at all if it were as simple as that. Tithing settlement is used to guilt and shame members into paying more. It's as simple as that.

And there is the lie.

Tithing Settlement serves two purposes: (1) To provide a check upon the accuracy of the ward's financial records, and (2) to enable the tithepayer to declare his tithing status. Where I live, it also serves a third purpose: the tithepayer receives a written statement of donations that s/he can use for tax purposes.

If it were as Pahoran falsely suggests, then the "are you a full tithe payer" yes-or-no question during the temple recommend interview would be the only time the Bishop would ever ask the question. If the member said "yes," that would suffice.

And, for the purposes of Temple Recommend interviews, it does indeed suffice.

Instead, there is this big production of tithing settlement at the end of every year.

And such a "big production" it is that, in our ward, the Tithing Settlement interviews are scheduled at five minute intervals.

That's five (5) minutes. Per family.

Wow, what a "big production!"

The church does not trust its members to be honest in answering the TR questions,

Another lie.

so it has the Bishop examine the members' donation records and interrogate the members face to face in a power-imbalanced environment.

Another lie. I have never been "interrogated" in a Tithing Settlement, and neither have you.

In every Tithing Settlement I've ever attended, the bishop has asked just two questions. They are: (1) "Are these totals correct?" and (2) "Are you a full tithepayer?" The bishop has always accepted, without comment, the answers I have given.

That's why the church wants to make it more difficult for members to send donations to Salt Lake City directly (unless they are big-money bigwigs like Mitt Romney)--so the Bishop knows exactly how much has been paid.

Call for references, please: do you have facts to back that up, or are you merely projecting your own boundless malice upon those who are quite beyond your comprehension?

And, of course, Pahoran knows this but feels a higher duty to "lie for the Lord"

Another lie. But it raises the question: who are you lying for?

in his efforts to make the church appear to be much more benign than we all know it to be.

While the Church is vastly more benign than this community of shared hatreds can understand, the fact remains that it's not possible for anything to appear more benign than the Church actually is.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Drifting]

The church does not trust its members to be honest in answering the TR questions, so it has the Bishop examine the members' donation records and interrogate the members face to face in a power-imbalanced environment.

Nearly every worthiness question in a personal interview is based on trust in the member's honesty. A bishop isn't going to know everything you do in your personal and private life, for example in "Honesty in dealings with others", or even whether you fully keep the WofW.

Then why dies the Bishop ask the question(s)?

[_Maxrep]

I'm ready to make my Clue accusation:

"It was the Bishop, in his office, with the clerks print out".

Tithing settlement is a fabricated necessity. Every aspect of the settlement are simply designed to put a couple/individual, in the bishops office, with the bishop, and the yearly total of tithes paid. It is a powerplay.

Does your employer call you in for "Salary settlement" at the close of each year, to make sure you can state that you worked all the hours you were paid for? Does your employer pass a sheet of paper across the table, simply so that you both understand how much you made? In the event the employee was paid for more hours than they actually worked, does the employee then have the opportunity to write a check to the employer so that they are in good standing during "Salary settlement"?

I find it laughable that there would be more than a handful of individuals that did not know if they were current with their tithing. For those who lost track, well that is what the clerk is for. They can ask for a printout. Or better yet, that information should be available online for the donors eyes only.

The need to make an orchestrated production of the euphemism, "settlement", is a leverage tactic in which an individuals personal finances are exposed to the bishop. There is nothing to "settle" that requires the bishop to have a personal knowledge of your finances. Tithing status can be declared by anyone without the necessity of financial disclosure. "settlement" is an unnecessary breach of privacy.

[_Pahoran]

I'm ready to make my Clue accusation:

"It was the Bishop, in his office, with the clerks print out".

Tithing settlement is a fabricated necessity. Every aspect of the settlement are simply designed to put a couple/individual, in the bishops office, with the bishop, and the yearly total of tithes paid. It is a powerplay.

Does your employer call you in for "Salary settlement" at the close of each year, to make sure you can state that you worked all the hours you were paid for? Does your employer pass a sheet of paper across the table, simply so that you both understand how much you made? In the event the employee was paid for more hours than they actually worked, does the employee then have the opportunity to write a check to the employer so that they are in good standing during "Salary settlement"?

I find it laughable that there would be more than a handful of individuals that did not know if they were current with their tithing. For those who lost track, well that is what the clerk is for. They can ask for a printout. Or better yet, that information should be available online for the donors eyes only.

The need to make an orchestrated production of the euphemism, "settlement", is a leverage tactic in which an individuals personal finances are exposed to the bishop. There is nothing to "settle" that requires the bishop to have a personal knowledge of your finances. Tithing status can be declared by anyone without the necessity of financial disclosure. "settlement" is an unnecessary breach of privacy.

No-one's "personal finances are exposed to the bishop." There is no "financial disclosure." You are fantasising again.

Like the fabricated quote in your sig, the above outburst represents no facts.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Drifting]

No-one's "personal finances are exposed to the bishop." There is no "financial disclosure." You are fantasising again.

Regards,
Pahoran

Yep, there is. One for each member showing payments made for the last 12 months.

If your Bishop doesn't have a print out for you perhaps it's time you started paying tithing....