Alpha & Omega: A Book of Mormon anachronistic blooper

[_Shulem]

Let's not forgot how Joseph Smith also screwed up names from the Old and New Testaments. Joseph Smith was ignorant of Greek and Hebrew names. Little did he know that Elijah and Elias were one in the same as was Isaiah and Isaias. Mormonism has split these guys in two and left Mormon Jesus holding a sorry bag:

I am ELIJAH and ELIAS, the beginning and the end, two prophets for the price of one

I am ISAIAH and ESAIAS, the beginning and the end, two prophets for the price of one

How dumb can you get?

[_krose]

How dumb can you get?

Well, we have someone in this thread claiming that "joy" is equally as French as "adieu," so...

[_huckelberry]

I am a person who is not aware of any part of my mind which doubts that the original version of the Book of Mormon was written in English.

What you believe is irrelevant. The subject of the discussion is not what you believe, but the objection you are raising against the Book of Mormon. You are saying that the use of the expression "Alpha and Omega" in the English version of the Book of Mormon is anachronistic

zerinus, If you had had the simple courtesy to listen to what I said you would know that what I said about alpha and omega was exactly what you state. On that matter we are in complete agreement.

My opening comment which you quote is not an argument or presentation of evidence it is a simple statement of my general point of view. It is clear that when you realized my view was different than yours you decided you had no further need to hear me. I think that indicates conversation with you is pointless.

[_Tator]

Paul awesome posts, thanks, you have blessed me and my day. Blessings back at ya.

[_zerinus]

What you believe is irrelevant. The subject of the discussion is not what you believe, but the objection you are raising against the Book of Mormon. You are saying that the use of the expression "Alpha and Omega" in the English version of the Book of Mormon is anachronistic

zerinus, If you had had the simple courtesy to listen to what I said you would know that what I said about alpha and omega was exactly what you state. On that matter we are in complete agreement.

My opening comment which you quote is not an argument or presentation of evidence it is a simple statement of my general point of view. It is clear that when you realized my view was different than yours you decided you had no further need to hear me. I think that indicates conversation with you is pointless.

My apologies! I was responding to comments too quickly (using a hand-held device), and I somehow got the wrong impression that your post was in fact from Shulem, and I responded to it too hastily without reading it all the way through. I will try to be more careful in the future before replying to posts. As for your comments regarding Timothy, that is an interesting observation. The best explanation I can think of for it is that the word Timothy in Greek means “honoring God,” and it is possible that the original name in the Book of Mormon also had the same meaning in the Nephite language, therefore it was translated into English as Timothy, rather than being transliterated as the other names had been. But my apologies again for getting you mixed up with someone else.

[_huckelberry]

regarding Timothy, that is an interesting observation. The best explanation I can think of for it is that the word Timothy in Greek means “honoring God,” and it is possible that the original name in the Book of Mormon also had the same meaning in the Nephite language, therefore it was translated into English as Timothy, rather than being transliterated as the other names had been. But my apologies again for getting you mixed up with someone else.[/color]

Zerinus,
I think that is a thoughtful response. Thankyou.

[_zerinus]

Zerinus,
I think that is a thoughtful response. Thankyou.

In the Bible, in the Old Testament especially, people were given names with meanings. There are lots of examples if you search for them. Here are a few, all from Genesis:

Gen. 3:

20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Gen. 4:

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Gen. 11:

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Gen. 16:

11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.

Gen. 17:

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Gen. 19:

22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.

Gen. 25:

25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Gen. 30:

6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.
• • •
8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.
• • •
11 And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.
• • •
13 And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.
• • •
18 And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.
• • •
20 And Leah said, God hath endued me with a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.

There are many more. It is quite possible that that particular name in the Book of Mormon was translated into English based on its meaning rather than what it sounds, or how it was pronounced.

[_Shulem]

As for your comments regarding Timothy, that is an interesting observation.

Yes, it's interesting how Smith allowed a Greek proper name to inter the story where it simply doesn't belong. Have you ever wondered what the Nephite word for "Bible" was that was etched on the gold plates? Smith was inconsistent and too lazy to come up with a fictitious Nephite word for Bible. The word Bible is out of place as are other words in the Book of Mormon. What of all the gobbledygook words and names Smith made up such as cureloms and cumoms? Crazy, Book of Mormon names and words! Smith was ignorant and failed to realize that using the word "Bible" was out of place. Had the record been a genuine story it wouldn't have used the word Bible but the word/phrase that the Nephites actually used to describe a volume of scripture. Smith would have introduced a correct translation that reflected the Nephite mindset and language. But, that all went over Smith's head. When he wrote the Book of Mormon he was an unlearned farm boy. His novel clearly is filled with anachronisms and inconsistent terminolgy.

The best explanation I can think of for it is that the word Timothy in Greek means "honoring God"

That's the best you can do?

Why can't Smith just give us another gobbledygook name and give us the real Nephite name? How about some consistency and correctness in the record? What is the Nephite name for "honoring God"? We get the Nephite name for other things but not for honoring God!

LOOK:

"And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which, being interpreted, is many waters."

"And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it."

"Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand."

and it is possible

It is quite possible

The oft repeated mantra of the apologist! "It is possible" -- always looking for any and every way out of the hole in which they are in. Imagine this and imagine that.

[_zerinus]

As for your comments regarding Timothy, that is an interesting observation.

Yes, it's interesting how Smith allowed a Greek proper name to inter the story where it simply doesn't belong. Have you ever wondered what the Nephite word for "Bible" was that was etched on the gold plates? Smith was inconsistent and too lazy to come up with a fictitious Nephite word for Bible. The word Bible is out of place as are other words in the Book of Mormon. What of all the gobbledygook words and names Smith made up such as cureloms and cumoms? Crazy, Book of Mormon names and words! Smith was ignorant and failed to realize that using the word "Bible" was out of place. Had the record been a genuine story it wouldn't have used the word Bible but the word/phrase that the Nephites actually used to describe a volume of scripture. Smith would have introduced a correct translation that reflected the Nephite mindset and language. But, that all went over Smith's head. When he wrote the Book of Mormon he was an unlearned farm boy. His novel clearly is filled with anachronisms and inconsistent terminolgy.

The best explanation I can think of for it is that the word Timothy in Greek means "honoring God"

That's the best you can do?

Why can't Smith just give us another gobbledygook name and give us the real Nephite name? How about some consistency and correctness in the record? What is the Nephite name for "honoring God"? We get the Nephite name for other things but not for honoring God!

LOOK:

"And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which, being interpreted, is many waters."

"And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it."

"Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand."

and it is possible

It is quite possible

The oft repeated mantra of the apologist! "It is possible" -- always looking for any and every way out of the hole in which they are in. Imagine this and imagine that.

Silliness abounds. No further comment required.

[_DarkHelmet]

It's not so much an anachronism as it is plagiarism. The same phrase is in the Bible. The Book of Mormon is Bible fan fiction, so you would expect some of the same phrases to be copied.