Excommunication is SPIRITUAL VIOLENCE and religious judgment to condemn the soul.
The church turns the spirit over to the buffetings of Satan and threatens the soul with everlasting destruction -- even perdition for those unfortunate enough to be condemned to the spiritual violence or the destruction of the soul in hell:
For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God
These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone
When a man walks in and sits down in a revivalist venue and the speaker is in the hell fire and damnation preaching mode and points at the man directly and screams and yells that the man is lost and bound for hell if he does not seek repentance and salvation by believing on the LJC and harangues the man until the man falls on his knees and cries out for salvation through the blood of Christ, I suggest he has been spiritually violated. A court of love is the same - degree of violence may vary!
Either Mormonism is 100% true, or 100% false. There is no middle ground...He (Joseph Smith) was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. - Joseph Fielding Smith (see Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, Pages 188-189)
Each of us has to face the matter — either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing. Gordon Hinckley
Accept Joseph Smith as a prophet and the book (of Mormon) as the miraculously revealed and revered word of the Lord it is or else consign both man and book to Hades for the devastating deception of it all, but let’s not have any bizarre middle ground about the wonderful contours of a young boy’s imagination or his remarkable facility for turning a literary phrase. That is an unacceptable position to take—morally, literarily, historically, or theologically.” - Jeff Holland
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
I'm not a fan of the term "spiritual violence" either. I spent a month this last summer visiting castles in Scotland and Germany. I'm fascinated with the history of religion, especially as it relates to the reformers and the inquisition and witch burnings and such. I really don't think the Mormon excommunication process needs to be labeled as "violent.' It's certainly abusive and corrupt. But violent? I don't think so, and I don't think it helps the progressive Mormon cause, or Bill's cause to be exact, to use the term
Just my opinion today.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
cwald wrote:I'm not a fan of the term "spiritual violence" either.
Hopefully you won't be doomed to suffer the WRATH of God and suffer hellfire and gnash your teeth. The horrible suffering described for those who are cast out through EXCOMMUNICATION and given to the buffetings of Satan are violent to the extreme. Absolute violence! Damned to hell to suffer eternal torment. If that's not violent then I don't know what is.
cwald wrote:I'm not a fan of the term "spiritual violence" either.
Hopefully you won't be doomed to suffer the WRATH of God and suffer hellfire and gnash your teeth. The horrible suffering described for those who are cast out through EXCOMMUNICATION and given to the buffetings of Satan are violent to the extreme. Absolute violence! Damned to hell to suffer eternal torment. If that's not violent then I don't know what is.
Yeah. Sure, if the Mormon god was real than I can see that. I'm not too worried about it though, Shulem.
ETA. You know, when you put it that way...the Mormon god is a real prick.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
cwald wrote:ETA. You know, when you put it that way...the Mormon god is a real prick.
Indeed, Mormon man god is an absolute joke. I have no desire whatsoever to bow my knee to that SOB. The concept of Mormon man god disgusts me. I can hardly stand what the Mormons have dreamed up. A disgusting cult -- distasteful to the extreme. Yuck. I hate the very concept of Mormon man god especially with his long beard sitting on a throne acting like he's god's gift to the universe. It makes me cringe. Eeww.
Handbook 1 Instructs that Disciplinary Councils must allow the person charged to be able to question any and all witnesses who present evidence against said person. You, due to your admissions to me and others that you agreed that it appeared Elder Holland was in fact lying along with your admittance that neither yourself or anyone higher was going to address my concerns or even attempt to answer them; And because it appears that during these proceedings, You will act as a witness presenting evidence, I reserve the right to question you and the evidence you hold that helps me present my case.
I am notifying you that upon the conclusion of your remarks and before the time allotted to me I am reserving my right to question you as a witness against me. I expect that you will want to follow the handbook on this and allow all in the room to hear your responses and testimony on these two issues and others. Such would only be fair and considerate (another clause in the handbook of which we have already corresponded).
I also reserve the right to question any other witness. Keep in mind to be fair there must be an actual person who perceives my social media efforts as "in apostasy". Who are these unknown people. Remember the Savior himself when he said "Where are thine accusers" Surely you get that there has to be a person who stands as a witness that my efforts are in fact apostasy. Surely I will be presented the chance to question such a witness?
I look forward to your response on this in a timely manner
Sincerely, Bill Reel
Sent to SP on 11.17.2018
Stake President
Handbook 1 Instructs that Disciplinary Councils must be FAIR and CONSIDERATE.
On that basis I am requesting that my wife be able to be with me during the proceedings. Such seems only considerate of of my emotional well being and the trauma that our family will incur during this ordeal.
I look forward to your response on this in a timely manner
Sincerely, Bill Reel
11.17.2018
Stake President
Handbook 1 Instructs that Disciplinary Councils must be FAIR and CONSIDERATE.
On that basis I am requesting that any supporting evidence that details where I have specifically done something that brings the charges you have issued along with names of witnesses to stand against me be shared with me at least 7 days in advance of the Disciplinary Council so that I have time to determine which witnesses to have as part of my proceedings and know how to prepare a defense against charges. Surely you can see that not knowing specifically what I have done that you see as justifying the charges you have brought against me and Who says I have done it makes it near impossible to be prepared. This would make the proceedings unfair and inconsiderate and breaks the very rules of our Church on such proceedings.
I look forward to your response on this in a timely manner Sincerely, Bill Reel
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
