Jenn Kamp Files Lawsuit Against John Dehlin

[dastardly stem]

Admittedly Gerardo’s comments come as about as vague and unhelpful as Jenn’s. I don’t find anything cleared up by one bearing his testimony of his employer. If he has something to say about evidence why not put it out there?

What is disproved anyway? That she didn’t file a complaint about John before being fired? Or that John wasn’t threatening and intimidating? I’m not just buying her accusations, but I’m not feeling satisfied by his testimony either. Give me something more or let the courts play it out, I guess.

[Kishkumen]

Yeah I haven’t heard any allegations near pedophilia nor rape…just plain old sexual harassment, intimidation, and mistreatment. I don’t think sexual harassment is something less because it’s “technically sexual harassment”. But it’s way behind us. I don’t think we need to rehash it. And I leave room for disagreement.

I do. I think there is a big difference between “my boss is routinely groping me without my consent in the copier room and I never signaled any reciprocal interest” and “I had a fling with my boss and since he is my boss I was sexually harassed.”

Get the difference?

Hopefully nothing untoward happened in this more current situation. I have nothing negative to say about Jenn Kamp. I never heard of her before this. Whether there was intimidation and abuse or not I find myself feeling sympathy. I certainly can imagine the possibility she’s making something out of nothing. I can also imagine a possibility that she genuinely felt mistreated when it’d be hard for a third party to say anything bad happened…and yet I can’t dismiss the possibility her accusations may have truth to them. But what can you do? Don’t know…trying not to conclude either way.

I would feel sympathetic if a friend came to me and cried about losing their job. These days I am much less sympathetic, to the point of suspicion, every time someone makes a video and posts it publicly to complain about how they were mistreated in furtherance of a plan to generate public outcry when their ex-employer wouldn’t give them the big severance package their less-than-a-year’s employment entitles one to.

[Kishkumen]

An employer can’t be held hostage by an employee if the employee isn’t a good fit. I mean, what does “mistreatment” even mean? No one likes to get sacked, but dropping a video after suing your employer for harassment or mistreatment seems to me either fantastically ballsy or stupid.

And, let’s say she gets a few clicks on her new show, or is able to sell some merch from her website from this move - cool, but not sustainable.

In this case I suspect mistreatment is something like “how dare you ask me to do my job!”.

[Dr Exiled]

I guess we have to wait for the evidence to come out. But by all means, show us the plates and let us examine them. If Dehlin had to make a choice to get rid of the crier that refused to adapt, then people will understand. Just do a bunch of evidenced based episodes for a bit and the crowd will forget the wanna be victim. The Rosebud saga continues but its getting better with each iteration.

However, if there is some meat to the story, and honestly I don't see this as having any, but if there is some meat, let's see that. Perhaps, Dehlin got frustrated at a victim that loved victimhood a little too much and lashed out a bit when she pushed back on his criticism? "John is mean" might have some legs but will soon die. He is a businessman and needs to make tough decisions at times.

In the end, for me, if it is a case where someone can't take getting fired then perhaps a little more backbone is needed and a little less emotion.

[dastardly stem]

I do. I think there is a big difference between “my boss is routinely groping me without my consent in the copier room and I never signaled any reciprocal interest” and “I had a fling with my boss and since he is my boss I was sexually harassed.”

Get the difference?

Point conceded. Yes, there are all types of harassment. But to keep the conversation spicy, odd you mention groping without consent since that was one of rosebud’s complaints.

I would feel sympathetic if a friend came to me and cried about losing their job. These days I am much less sympathetic, to the point of suspicion, every time someone makes a video and posts it publicly to complain about how they were mistreated in furtherance of a plan to generate public outcry when their ex-employer wouldn’t give them the big severance package their less-than-a-year’s employment entitles one to.

Gotcha. I haven’t seen any such videos. Maybe that’s why I’m feeling less defensive for John. It’s certainly possible she has no case here. I’m not feeling all that concerned about it.

[dastardly stem]

Jenn Kamp needs to make as much hay as she can before the evidence comes out.

There is a great deal of documentary evidence that will demonstrate she is being disingenuous and hasn’t a leg to stand on.

Go, Jenn! Go!

I missed this, somehow. What are we supposed to do wait for you to do a show on it before we see this documentary evidence? What ya got?

[Kishkumen]

Point conceded. Yes, there are all types of harassment. But to keep the conversation spicy, odd you mention groping without consent since that was one of rosebud’s complaints.

Not odd at all. I did it on purpose. So, as soon as you claim you were harassed and you did not consent, and then others find plentiful evidence of you consenting to being involved in an affair, your credibility is undermined. Unfortunately, I have no idea of knowing when and to what extent JD acted without consent. I have seen texts that show R trying to push JD into keeping an affair going after he stopped consenting to it.

Everyone can consent and remove consent. Even JD.

Gotcha. I haven’t seen any such videos. Maybe that’s why I’m feeling less defensive for John. It’s certainly possible she has no case here. I’m not feeling all that concerned about it.

I saw the video that opened this thread. Have you not seen it? What did Kamp want for those two months she tried to negotiate with Open Stories Foundation about her departure? Did she want back in? Did she want John to be fired? Did she want to take over MoSto as the Kamp Fireside? Did she want more severance than she had been offered and turned down? I am guessing that some of what she wanted, at the very least, was more severance.

Look, I do have a line on some of what was going on here, but I cannot say for a certainty anything about evidence the Open Stories Foundation has that contradicts Kamp’s claims. I have heard of its existence, however, and I also know that the last time consiglieri claimed to have such evidence, he produced it, and he got it, I may not be recalling this exactly right, directly from JD. R never produced one thing that clearly showed she was a victim of JD’s sexual harassment beyond the existence of a consensual affair that JD was wrong to engage in and R did not want to have end when JD did.

[Marcus]

A different take on the previous situation is that an inappropriate sexual relationship with a person in a position of authority over the employee culminated in the loss of the employee's job.

I do agree the victim behaved very badly, but that doesn't excuse or override the actions of the employers, which, in my opinion and relying on the facts of the case, constituted sexual harassment in the workplace.

I'm not interested in re-discussing this, i just wanted to point out a different conclusion.

[dastardly stem]

A different take on the previous situation is that an inappropriate sexual relationship with a person in a position of authority over the employee culminated in the loss of the employee's job.

I do agree the victim behaved very badly, but that doesn't excuse or override the actions of the employers, which, in my opinion and relying on the facts of the case, constituted sexual harassment in the workplace.

I'm not interested in re-discussing this, i just wanted to point out a different conclusion.

Same. It's where I landed too. It's also not something I care to get back into either.

[Kishkumen]

Yes, this is why people should never, ever engage in office romances or even casual sex with work colleagues. Once the workplace and the bedroom are mixed up, one can never know for certain exactly how one impacted the other. Sure, we can say that R was fired simply because she had an affair with someone higher up at work, but then there are the other complications in which she wanted to use the situation to oust Joanna Brooks with the help of her alleged abuser.

I am sorry, but I simply can’t see her firing as simple retaliation following on a illicit workplace affair. R was an existential threat to the entire operation. It is understandable why people see her as the victim, she knows it, and that’s what she exploits.