The Mosiah/Benjamin Error, Reinterpreted

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Limnor
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Re: The Mosiah/Benjamin Error, Reinterpreted

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malkie wrote:
Sun Nov 09, 2025 2:37 am
I can only imagine that Reformed Egyptian would diverge much further from idiomatic English when subjected to literal translation.
That’s a really good point, malkie, and I think it actually helps explain why the Book of Mormon sounds like the KJV instead of anything “foreign.”

In addition to the “distinctly not idiomatic” rendering of such a translation, if Joseph had truly been translating from something as remote as “Reformed Egyptian,” the result should have been some version of contemporary English in Joseph’s time, not fluent biblical English reflected in terms familiar with the 1769 KJV.

But it kind of makes sense if you think of the translation not as a linguistic process but as a revelatory performance.

Joseph rendered revelation in the only language he considered sacred—the language of scripture. To his mind, God spoke in King James English. So the text isn’t what Reformed Egyptian would look like in English, it’s what Joseph thought revelation had to “sound” like.
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Limnor
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Re: The Mosiah/Benjamin Error, Reinterpreted

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It sounds odd, but I’m not even sure this type of thing even mattered to Joseph’s earliest followers.

In a fascinating little episode from LDS history, sometime around 1835—before he had formally studied Hebrew—Oliver Cowdery tried what he thought was a “back-translation” of Book of Mormon verses into Hebrew.

In notes now online in the Joseph Smith Papers, he rendered Jacob 5:13 (“for it grieveth me that I should lose this tree & the fruit thereof”) as “fin Zemin ezmon E. Zer Oms. Ifs veris exzer ens. vonis vinesis,” and Jacob 7:27 (“brethren I bid you adieu”) as “ifs E. Zamtri.”

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... 835-1836/1

They bear no resemblance to real Hebrew—but it’s fascinating that this even happened. It shows how early believers weren’t bothered by linguistic authenticity, and lends to my assessment that all that mattered was that the text sounded ancient and sacred.

Edited to add: it probably doesn’t matter much to current believers either, come to think of it.
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Re: The Mosiah/Benjamin Error, Reinterpreted

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The Benjamin/Mosiah Error and the Displacement of the Interpreters

The Benjamin/Mosiah error in the Book of Mormon shulem is exploring here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=160643 has implications that provide additional insight into the book’s composition by indicating a struggle over leadership within the young sect.

The editorial slip, within an allegorical frameplonet, represents a transfer of prophetic authority from Sidney Rigdon, the expected seer (Benjamin), and Joseph Smith, who ultimately claims the interpreters and the right to speak for God (Mosiah).

The interpreters—two stones—in Ether 3 are first given to the brother of Jared, and the Lord tells the brother of Jared to seal them up with the things he writes.
Ether 3 23 And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.

24 For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.

Ether 3 27 And the Lord said unto him: Write these things and seal them up; and I will show them in mine own due time unto the children of men.

28 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded him that he should seal up the two stones which he had received, and show them not, until the Lord should show them unto the children of men.
“In mine own due time” was apparently in the book of Omni—the medium on which the brother of Jared wrote was apparently a large stone:
Omni 1 20 And it came to pass in the days of Mosiah, there was a large stone brought unto him with engravings on it; and he did interpret the engravings by the gift and power of God.

21 And they gave an account of one Coriantumr, and the slain of his people. And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.

22 It also spake a few words concerning his fathers. And his first parents came out from the tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people; and the severity of the Lord fell upon them according to his judgments, which are just; and their bones lay scattered in the land northward.
But what happened to the interpreters? It doesn’t appear to matter, as Mosiah was able to translate through the “gift and power of God.”

And what medium did the brother of Jared use to “write down and seal up” all he had seen? There is no mention of plates, or a stone, or on ore in that passage within Ether.

The next mention—not counting the plates of brass—we see is in Mosiah 8, only now the interpreters are mentioned and the writings of the brother of Jared are on plates of gold—not a stone—but the interpreters somehow were separated from the brother of Jared’s writings that he was supposed to seal up:
Mosiah 8 And it came to pass that he caused that the plates which contained the record of his people from the time that they left the land of Zarahemla, should be brought before Ammon, that he might read them.

6 Now, as soon as Ammon had read the record, the king inquired of him to know if he could interpret languages, and Ammon told him that he could not.

Mosiah 8 13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.
And then, in Mosiah 21, it is now plates of ore (gold? It doesn’t say) no longer a “stone” as described in Omni, or specifically plates as in Mosiah 8, and the interpretation remains through “the gift and power of God.” This is the chapter that originally read “Benjamin,” and again the interpreters are missing.
Mosiah 21 27 And they brought a record with them, even a record of the people whose bones they had found; and it was engraven on plates of ore.

28 And now Limhi was again filled with joy on learning from the mouth of Ammon that king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; yea, and Ammon also did rejoice.
So much for an internally consistent story.

All that said, my proposal is the error of Benjamin/Mosiah suggests it was Rigdon—as suggested by the similarity of his theological approach as reflected in the sermon of Benjamin—who “is”Benjamin. Rigdon expected to be the chosen translator—the one through whom the sealed record would come forth—but that fulfillment arrived through Joseph, who claimed the interpreters—the two stones—and the title of prophet and seer.

The interpreters themselves became the symbol of authority. Mosiah 28:14–15 (which I see as a redaction) recounts that “these things were to be kept and handed down from one generation to another … for the purpose of interpreting languages; and they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord.”

The possession of these interpreters became the identifying mark of prophetic legitimacy. In my allegorical framework, Rigdon was expected to be the heir apparent—the one who prepared the theological “scaffold”—yet Joseph takes physical and narrative possession, turning what was once a collaborative project into a personal revelation.

The moment the interpreters pass to Mosiah—and, allegorically, to Joseph—becomes the usurpation point. In this allegorical reading, the physical interpreters reflect the authority of prophetic power: when Joseph claims them, he claims that authority.

The Benjamin/Mosiah seam, rather than a simple botch, reveals insight into the usurpation of Sidney Rigdon by Joseph Smith.
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