God can write straight with crooked lines.

[malkie]

[MG 2.0]

Be honest, is that your self image - that this is a playground full of kids and you’re the only adult in the room?

MG, you may have meant this lightly, but the “playground” metaphor lands as dismissive and reduces the credibility of a good faith discussion. It’s times like this when the “troll” language feels apt.

It wasn't meant to be dismissive at all. When Philo earlier brought in Tolkien to the discussion I saw that as him bringing his friends (ideas) into play for others to grapple with (play with).

That's ALL I was entertaining/saying. In other words, have fun discussing these ideas. I, for one, have been having fun reading what others have had to say. I hope the 'toys' I brought into the playground (conversation) haven't been too much of a distraction. They can always be left to the side while other things are 'played with'.

Sometimes, and I've said this before, critics tend towards being too serious with little sense of 'play'. Yes, I know the stakes are high...but we can have fun and/or enjoy the process of bouncing ideas around.

Philo and one or two others come pretty close to being able to do this. Others, such as recent posters on this thread, seemingly do not have a sense of 'play' at all.

At this point I would hope that if there is any more useful discussion to take place on this thread that it can happen without a derail having to do with me personally.

We've now seen the "troll" accusation being put out there again. C'mon guys.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

An ocilloscope can show different kinds of wave forms. Applied to our discussion, different trials, different roadblocks, different paths, etc.

In my opinion, God uses these different wave forms (experiences and trials, etc.) as opportunities for us to choose 'greater good' rather than 'lesser evil'. As we do so God can write straight with crooked lines and bring us into closer alignment with Him.

That may look different for different folks spread across the world. Of course, as members of the CofJCofLDS we would say that the Gospel of Jesus Christ sets us 'straight' even as we have traveled or are currently traveling crooked paths.

On an ocilloscope those paths may look different as you have shown in your display/picture.

Thanks for posting that.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

OK. I said I was stepping out for a bit.

Exiting, stage right. Back at a later time.

Playground is open, gate unlocked.

Regards,
MG

Be honest, is that your self image - that this is a playground full of kids and you’re the only adult in the room?

MG, you may have meant this lightly, but the “playground” metaphor lands as dismissive and reduces the credibility of a good faith discussion. It’s times like this when the “troll” language feels apt.

And his defense is, 'lighten up, don't take offense, I was just joking with you.' Then he wonders why the term 'troll' keeps coming up.

[bill4long]

I bet it's even possible for Christians to do all of that without accumulating hundreds of billions of dollars in an investment fund, huge amounts of real estate in various places, and great and spacious buildings all over the world.

I would agree. The New Testament model couldn't be any clearer that the Hebrew temple and its function was a metaphorical "shadow" of a future reality (Hebrews 8,9,10), that the Body of Christ ("church") is the fulfillment of that model, that God doesn't live in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48), fulfulled by Jesus and lives in his True Body the "church" (Rom 12:5, Eph 5:23, Acts 17:24, 1Co 3:17, Eph 2:21, 2Co 6:16, Col 2:17-19). "For we are the temple of the living God." Kinda obviates the need for expensive buildings made with hands.

[Marcus]

Ah there it is. From that starting point, our worldviews are so different that I don’t see much room for reconciling the two views.

It’s as if MG 2.0 is holding on to the childish Primary level view that the Adam & Eve story is literal. Rather than understanding it for the allegorical tale that it really is. The Fall Of Adam, wasn’t an actual event. It’s just an iron-age blogger’s allegorical vehicle for explaining consciousness, human freedom, moral choice, and the origin of spiritual brokenness.

I liked this description. It reminds me of DrW's position that the feelings and thoughts that led to a belief in the supernatural originally (and still) come from inside the brain. It was a way to deal with death when short term memory improved and grief remained.

The thread I linked to above is a classic, if anyone's interested. It still resonates. From 2017,
"MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?" by DrW.

[malkie]

Grasping at oscilloscopes!

It's amazing what you can "see" when you need to make something fit a pre-determined explanation.

[MG 2.0]

Grasping at oscilloscopes!

It's amazing what you can "see" when you need to make something fit a pre-determined explanation.

I'll admit, it's a high-frequency stretch. But in a world full of static and noise, I’m just trying to find a signal that isn't ALL noise. I brought the oscilloscope to the playground and it's definitely a bit bulky (a bit much for some) for the sandbox and seems to leave little room for critics to sit and play.

Are you suggesting that we might need a higher sample rate to see the 'straight lines' more clearly?

As it is, your response really doesn't take us anywhere at all.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Grasping at oscilloscopes!

It's amazing what you can "see" when you need to make something fit a pre-determined explanation.

Especially if one just asks AI to make up some connection.

[I Have Questions]

Grasping at oscilloscopes!

It's amazing what you can "see" when you need to make something fit a pre-determined explanation.

I think that's an important point malkie. Religious people in particular, with a vested interest in their belief being right, are prone to not only confirmation bias, but also a willingness and an ability to gaslight themselves. Take MG 2.0 as an example on this thread, he started with a premise when he started this thread, and despite all the very well researched and supported information supplied to him through these many pages, he's unable to develop his position to take that new information into account simply because he is too attached to convincing himself that he is right. Anybody or anything can 'write straight with crooked lines', from the Gods of the Ancient Greeks to a modern 8 ball, so long as the believer retrospectively assigns outcomes in an arbitrary and inconsistent fashion to fit with their belief in whatever deity, spiritual object, or superstition that they wish to attach themselves to.