Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Does the use of the word “plummeted” by someone make you sit up and take notice that something scary as s&@t is about to be told to you- like “the bus I was on plummeted down the mountainside and into the river” or “I saw a plane plummeting from the sky and heard the hysterical cry of a woman clinging to the tail section”, or
My grades in my second year of college plummeted when I got involved in an affair with the dean’s daughter”
Use of the word plummeted should be used only when your listeners can handle upcoming tragedy or near tragedy!
Oh did you ever hear the story about how President Russell M . Nelson was a passenger in a blah blah blah..?
I thought so!
k
My grades in my second year of college plummeted when I got involved in an affair with the dean’s daughter”
Use of the word plummeted should be used only when your listeners can handle upcoming tragedy or near tragedy!
Oh did you ever hear the story about how President Russell M . Nelson was a passenger in a blah blah blah..?
I thought so!
k
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Some possible "inside "assistance!!
Last night i emailed a former 35+ year DN reporter and editor (he started in 1976) . He and I had conversed via email over a few years about a number of his columns and i thought well "what the hell" he may have hearsay or first hand information on Nelson's story telling. He emailed this morning that he was aware of the Dew biography having to be re-printed in order to correct one story. He said he will try to track down what he can on the doomed ghost flight story. I asked specifically if he could verify any coverage by DN or church news on the incident.
Let's see what he comes up with- will keep you posted!
k
Last night i emailed a former 35+ year DN reporter and editor (he started in 1976) . He and I had conversed via email over a few years about a number of his columns and i thought well "what the hell" he may have hearsay or first hand information on Nelson's story telling. He emailed this morning that he was aware of the Dew biography having to be re-printed in order to correct one story. He said he will try to track down what he can on the doomed ghost flight story. I asked specifically if he could verify any coverage by DN or church news on the incident.
Let's see what he comes up with- will keep you posted!
k
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Wow, will be interesting!kairos wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:41 pmSome possible "inside "assistance!!
Last night i emailed a former 35+ year DN reporter and editor (he started in 1976) . He and I had conversed via email over a few years about a number of his columns and i thought well "what the hell" he may have hearsay or first hand information on Nelson's story telling. He emailed this morning that he was aware of the Dew biography having to be re-printed in order to correct one story. He said he will try to track down what he can on the doomed ghost flight story. I asked specifically if he could verify any coverage by DN or church news on the incident.
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
In a book blog written 5 years ago, Dennis Horne offered a few highlights from Russell M. Nelson's autobiography, From Heart to Heart. Other than Russell's brief account of his reason for writing it, Dennis doesn't mention the airplane incident in his description of the book's contents. What I *didn't* know, however, is that Russell's book was written at the behest of Spencer W. Kimball (who also wrote its forward).
http://www.truthwillprevail.xyz/2016/03 ... n.html?m=1
Aside from the limited printing and that it was written primarily for his own family, there is one other curveball that may contribute to the book's rarity (as well as prevent the issue of further unredacted editions): Russell, apparently, might have given too much away as regards his invitation to receive the Second Anointing.
This was noted in the comments section of the above article:
I will post the entirety of his review here:
http://www.truthwillprevail.xyz/2016/03 ... n.html?m=1
Aside from the limited printing and that it was written primarily for his own family, there is one other curveball that may contribute to the book's rarity (as well as prevent the issue of further unredacted editions): Russell, apparently, might have given too much away as regards his invitation to receive the Second Anointing.
This was noted in the comments section of the above article:
Unknown March 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM wrote:Thanks for doing this, Dennis. A few reactions: First, doing a blog on the history of collectable books is a novel idea and is a terrific contribution to the collectible Mormon book world. I like books that have a story. Second, this post sounds more like a review than a history. Reviews are neither history nor novel. And this book has quite a history. Which brings up a third point. What makes this book unique and command such a price isn't the spiritual experiences. Lots of autobiographies have such stories. What makes Nelson's book unique is that he rather carefully describes the invitation to receive a second annointing (though in less detail than Joseph Bentley's very scarce and collectable autobiography, for example.) That and the limited printing are what makes it a pricey and scarce collectable, IMHO. That said, I'm glad you're doing this and hope you'll share more of the stories about books you've accumulated.
ETA: For some reason the link to Dennis Horne's Book Blog shows up as Page Not Found.Dennis Horne March 25, 2016 at 6:45 PM wrote: Keith, thanks for the comments. The Mormon Book Bits will often be a mixture of history, review, and some collecting thoughts, but mostly history. I am aware of the reason you give for the books value, but chose not to mention it because of the sensitivity involved. I am however glad that the book did not have to go through Correlation and remains so candid and delightful and faith-promoting. I hope you enjoy future Mormon Book Bits as they are posted.
I will post the entirety of his review here:
Dennis Horne wrote: One of the most desirable Mormon books today is this autobiography of Russell M. Nelson (not to be confused with his biography, published years later). No one seems to know how many were printed, but the prevailing notion is around 2-300, though that number could be high. In 1989, in reply to a letter from a collector that had read a copy and found it highly enjoyable, Elder Nelson wrote the following: “I am amazed you were able to acquire a copy of From Heart to Heart. This book I prepared for the family. There are a few extra copies about, but it has been out of print for quite some time.”
It should be realized that this book was written before Russell Nelson became Elder (now President) Russel M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (1979), and therefore contains no information about his service as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. Without his call to this position in the Church, the book would likely have remained a wonderful but obscure personal biography of a prominent heart surgeon and mid-level church leader, but would not have attained the status and desirability it now carries, especially for collectors of LDS biography. The lack of apostolic status at the time of publication seems to have been both a positive and a negative. Positive because the book did not have to be censored and therefore contains marvelous information only meant for family and friends. Negative because his unquestionably many edifying apostolic experiences are absent.
One need only peruse the following sample of highlights to realize the quality of the gems found within its pages:
1) A detailed account of a visit from the Spirit World of his great-grandfather to his grandfather (16-18). Elder Nelson has referred to this sacred story in general conference talks.
2) His pioneer work in the medical field of heart surgery.
3) A section (Part B) covering his experiences with many prominent Church leaders—among them David O. McKay, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee, and especially Spencer W. Kimball.
4) The most detailed account existing of the heart surgery performed by Dr. Nelson on President Kimball when it was revealed to Nelson that Kimball would someday become the President of the Church (162-65).
5) His service as the General President of the Sunday School.
6) A priesthood administration given to President Kimball by Dr. Nelson by means of which the Prophet sustained a quick miraculous recovery.
7) Mention of a dream had by President Hugh B. Brown in which he was visited and conversed with Harold B. Lee (who had died a year earlier), the night before the dedication of the Washington DC Temple (188).
8) The miraculous blessing and healing of a dying person (294-95), as well as mention of other miraculous priesthood administrations.
9) Other information that I personally will not mention, that only those who take the time to read it might find and be edified and uplifted by.
Before publication, Elder Nelson wrote that he: “Met for one hour with President Spencer W. Kimball reviewing the contents of this book. He studied it carefully and approved my publishing the chapters referring to my privilege of being his servant and surgeon. He was so happy to see his request honored that the book be written” (389). President Kimball also wrote the foreword, in which he said: “This book, the engaging record of the life and experiences of Russell Marion Nelson, is a fulfillment of a great dream…. This work will bring joy and peace and happiness to its readers.” Also, “It pleases me very much to note that he has done a superb work in assembling the information to bring this book into existence. Seldom are so many pages put together to create a life history so rich and full of experiences as this record…. It seems to me that it has been done beautifully and without flaw.” There is no question that the writing style and tone of the book promote faith.
In the Preface Elder Nelson referred to the frightening experience that jolted him into writing the book: “The final nudge came as I was a passenger in a small airplane plummeting earthward with one of its two engines exploded. I realized then that although both the spiritual and material needs for my family had been provided, I had not left for them a reasonable recapitulation of my life that they could review. The safe emergency landing of that disabled aircraft provided me with the chance I needed.” On January 28, 2009, mention of the scarcity and collectibility of this book was made by a Deseret News columnist, raving about its legendary mystique among book lovers.
Last edited by Gabriel on Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Dr. Moore,Dr Moore wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:16 pmHow plausible is it that if the events happened as-described by Nelson, the pilot and/or aircraft operator could have interpreted the rules in such a way as to NOT file any notification?DrW wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:42 pmThis data base (FAA and NTSB versions) were transcribed from hardcopy records and they happened to use the Table format you see. These are not the original official records, and do not claim to be. They are a convenient and accessible way to get to transcriptions of official records starting in 1973.
As told, it doesn't fit the definition of an "Aircraft accident." Because: (1) No one was injured, evidently, and (2) Nelson's description doesn't meet the criteria for "substantial damage."
I think that much is clear from any of the versions described by Nelson. Would you agree?
So it is a question of whether this rises to a reportable incident. Those criteria in 1976 were:
As I read them, (a)(1)-(3) and (5) seem to obviously not apply, leaving just:
(4) In-flight fire
or
(b) An aircraft is overdue and is believed to have been involved in an accident.
Would you agree?
Then:
(b) seems less likely, as the pilot continued flying, presumably maintained radio control, so there would never have been reason to believe the plane was in an accident.
Leaving justfor a potential initial notification.(4) In-flight fire
How is "In-flight fire" interpreted?
Is it possible that a pilot and operator in 1976 could have interpreted "in-flight fire" to exclude an engine fire and some splattered burning oil or fuel on the wing? Or is any fire, including such an engine fire, encompassed by that requirement? Is that found anywhere in a code book?
Agreed that the inflight fire and overdue aircraft aspects of the story would have resulted in NTSB notifications. Rather than comment further, allow me to provide some context regarding the likelihood of a notification of such a flight event or chain of events being made, or of supporting documentation existing. What follows is a point by point look at Russell M. Nelson’s story from a pilot’s perspective. I will describe the pilot’s role in the events, as Russell M. Nelson claimed they happened, except in the cases where he described events that are highly improbable or impossible.
Please keep in mind that it took me a lot longer to write it than it will for you to read it. When you are finished, please ask yourself how probable you think it is that this could have happened and not been reported to the NTSB. More importantly, after reading this response, how likely do you think it is that the flight as described by Russell M. Nelson really happened?
I was flying in 1976, so the following descriptions of the air traffic communications environment should be pretty accurate for the time period in question. Here goes:
1. Pilot arrives for work at (e.g. SkyWest) operations in SLC, checks weather, files a flight plan, pre-flights the aircraft.
2. He loads passengers, secures the doors, clears the aircraft, starts the engines, checks ATIS for departure information, contacts tower, and gets clearance to taxi. Gets clearance to the runway, takes off and opens his flight plan. Now the FAA knows about the flight and will pay attention until the flight plan is closed.
3. Pilot departs as advised and is handed off to Salt Lake Center Air Traffic Control (ATC), receives clearance to his cruising altitude, gets traffic (if any), sets the code on his transponder as instructed by ATC and squawks for ident. (The aircraft transponder responds to ATC with a numeric code that is set in the cockpit when interrogated (swept) by ATC radar. This code shows up on the ATC screens and allows ATC to track the aircraft. “Squawk for ident” is an instruction to the pilot to press a button on the transponder that lights up his aircraft on the ATC radar screen to confirm identification). Now ATC is responsible for the aircraft until it is handed off to the tower in Cedar City.
4. 100 miles out, and about 25 miles from Delta Municipal airport, the right engine “explodes” (unlikely) and catches fire (fair enough). Pilot jumps on the left rudder to control the aircraft, and takes appropriate action to close right engine throttle, mixture to idle / off, fuel pump switch off, and feathers the prop.
5. Pilot declares and emergency (might even make a May Day call to clear a radio channel), advises Salt Lake Center of the engine fire, and asks for clearance to nearest airport (which is Delta Municipal). He may or may not need to dive to extinguish the fire. Fuel fires will extinguish when there is no more fuel to burn. Oil fires may persist because oil may continue to leak from a damaged line even after the engine stops. However, they are normally not as dangerous as avgas fires.
(Normally in such a situation, the pilot would get his ATC clearance and proceed on one engine to Delta Municipal. Delta has no tower so the pilot would use the local airport Unicom network to advise any local traffic of his emergency and his priority intent for a straight in approach and landing without a normal pattern entry. Other pilots on Unicom, if any, would acknowledge and stay clear of the runway and needed airspace. Once on the ground, the pilot would then contact Cedar City FAA Flight Service Station (FSS) by landline, report the aircraft landed safely with no injuries, close his flight plan to prevent an unnecessary missing aircraft search, and wait for instructions from SkyWest operations.)
6. In the Russell M. Nelson story the fire persists, fueled by both avgas and engine oil. The pilot decides to try putting out the fire by increasing airspeed as recommended in the Navajo Operating manual. He enters a shallow straight ahead dive, while watching that his airspeed does not exceed a safe 180 - 190 kts. The fire is extinguished.
Sorry, but the spiral death dive in the Russell M. Nelson version is pure BS. The left engine would still be operational and there is no reason whatsoever for the pilot to enter a “death spiral”. Navajo Chieftains are not certified for spins (spinning the aircraft is prohibited). So if the pilot did somehow lose control and spun the aircraft, he would have about half a rotation to recover, after which the saga would end in an uncontrolled crash landing. So no spiral. This image is from movies or WWII air battle footage. If the pilot wanted to dump altitude, he would not do so in a spiral with a dead engine in a twin. There would be no reason for such a dangerous maneuver. He would enter a straight line descent or a gentle turning descent that would head him in the direction of the Delta Municipal airport.
7. Back to the RNM version: the pilot has somehow become disoriented after his death spiral episode. He is still dizzy and shaking from his brush with death. He is also lost and at such a low altitude that he cannot see Delta Municipal. He has narrowly avoided certain death and just wants to get back on the ground. Looking for a place to land, the pilot follows a road (which is what pilots some times do after dark or in bad weather when they are lost). Why not just land on the road? With his 40 foot wingspan, he wisely decides not to try to land on the road because of wooden power poles along the right of way. Instead, he lowers his landing gear and puts the aircraft down in an open field. Chances are great that his nose gear would have dug into the soil and severely damaged the undercarriage or even flipped the plane. The plane does not flip.
More BS. If the pilot had one good engine and could control the aircraft well enough to follow a road in broad daylight, why would he not proceed to nearby Delta Municipal which has a Unicom radio network, and where he was cleared to land on a perfectly good runway.
9. With the aircraft on the ground in a farmer’s field, the passengers deplane and - what? Walk to the road to hitch a ride with a passing farmer? Where would they go?
10. Well, they would go to Delta Municipal so the pilot could call St. George and a plane could be dispatched from St. George to come and pick up the passengers. The pilot is required to remove and secure all logbooks, certificates, and other records from the wreckage of the aircraft. He would have taken them with him to go to Delta Municipal with the person who gave them a lift from the crash site. Knowing all this, why had the pilot of the Navajo not simply landed at Delta Municipal? He was able to "re-start" the good engine in time to fly along the road looking for who knows what, why not just fly to Delta Municipal in the first place?
So, why does no one seem to know about the event in 1976 except from Russell M. Nelson's books and speeches? Below is a list of the contemporary communications, notifications and noteworthy public perceptions and observations that would have been associated with this event as Russell M. Nelson tells it, had it actually occurred.
1. Pilot reports in-flight engine fire to ATC and declares and emergency. ATC consults the pilots flight plan, sees that the destination is Cedar City and advises Cedar City FSS to prepare and stand by for a possible emergency landing. Now FSS staff, (SkyWest) operations (half a dozen staff?) at Cedar City airport now know about the emergency.
2. When the aircraft dropped below a certain altitude floor (not sure what it would be in mountainous Utah - a few thousand feet or less) it would have disappeared from radar and the pilot would have lost radio contact with ATC. Delta has no tower and Cedar City tower is out of radio range.
3. (SkyWest) operations is further notified by ATC that one of their aircraft had declared an emergency with an engine fire and had subsequently disappeared from radar somewhere in the vicinity of Delta, Utah. ATC would record the last known radar position of the Navajo in order to assist in the subsequent search for a downed aircraft. SkyWest operation may have even checked the flight manifest to see how many next of kin might need notification if worse came to worse.
Best case scenario would be that Cedar City FSS monitors Delta Unicom and would know if the Navajo pilot had made a Unicom call advising intent to land, or when he was on the ground and clear of the runway. (Delta Municipal aircraft flight plan filing and some clearances are still managed through the Cedar City FSS.)
If Cedar City FSS does not monitor Delta Unicom, then ATC would have no way of knowing what had happened to the aircraft and it would be presumed down. It is possible that ATC would have tried to contact any pilots in the airspace near Delta Utah to see if anyone had heard any communications from the Navajo or seen a smoke plume. Light aircraft crashes give rise to unmistakable black smoke plumes from burning avgas as it consumes fabric and plastic interiors and oxidizes aluminum. These plumes rise to high altitudes on clear cold days. They are visible for miles and miles.
By now we have ATC, two flight service stations, SkyWest operations in SLC and Cedar City, and any pilots tuned to the ATC frequency on which this all came down, who know about the downed plane. This is before someone calls St. George and asks Sky West to dispatch a second aircraft to fly to Delta and pick up the passengers to continue their journey to Cedar City or St. George. Now folks waiting to greet the passengers from the SkyWest flight in Cedar City and St. George know that the flight experienced a forced landing and their passengers will be delayed. Then there is the matter of that downed aircraft in a field beside a road near Delta Utah.
Since this was a "commuter" aircraft, it would have been owned by a company with legal obligation to record and report the events to the NTSB. An in-flight engine fire is an event that requires immediate notification by the operator.
There is a low winged aircraft, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, setting in a farmer’s field with a burned out engine. The landing gear was probably damaged but even if it were not, the plane could not be flown out. The choices are to set up shop and replace the engine in the field (possible depending on damage not confined to the engine, but highly unlikely), or recover the aircraft and take it to SLC or St. George for repair and replacement of the engine. The Piper Navajo Chieftain PA31-350 (most likely aircraft involved here and pretty much the smallest commuter of the era) is 33 feet long and has a wingspan of 40 feet.
No wide load hauling permit for the intact would be possible. In order to truck the Navajo to the nearest repair facility, the wings would need to be removed. The disassembled plane would be loaded onto a long flatbed trailer and driven most likely to SLC. Please consider:
-How many people would have driven by the operation in the field and stopped to have a look during the many days it would have taken to arrange for disassembly and transport?
-How many passengers would have brought their families back to see the airplane that almost killed them?
-How many fast Sunday testimonies by the passengers and their families would have described the vivid details to how many congregations?
- How many people will have contemporary first hand or second hand knowledge of this incident within a week? Hundreds?
-What are the chances that such a story, with all the subsequent events described, would not appear in every paper in the state of Utah?
- Who believes that these events would not have been a candidate for Southern Utah top 10 news story of the year?
- Who believes that it would not have given rise to faith promoting stories that would have been repeated far and wide in Utah?
- Who believes that the legally required, FAA, NTSB, company flight operations, and aircraft maintenance shop records of such an event would have not been created in the first place or would have all been destroyed without a trace?
_____________
Edits have been made to fix typos and add text in response to RI's question in a later post, as well as to better identify the type of aircraft known from Dr, Moore's research to be on the SkyWest route to Cedar City and St. George in the mid 1970s. Item #7 has been expanded to answer RI's question about why pilots sometimes revert to following roads.
Last edited by DrW on Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
DrW - so much to chew on here. Thanks! I’m reflecting on the family drive-by parade and again baffled about no news coverage.
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Thank you very much for taking the time to give us the pilot’s eye view. One of the many things that has puzzled me about the landing in a field is why do it if one engine is operating? If the pilot had some reason to believe that the fire was not extinguished, is there any reason why he would follow the highway for a while and then land in a field? Wouldn’t he want to get the aircraft on the ground right away?
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Phil Hendrie used to do bits about pilots and their opinions. Pompous and a snooze fest. We got one here.
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Yahoo,Bought Yahoo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:53 amPhil Hendrie used to do bits about pilots and their opinions. Pompous and a snooze fest. We got one here.
Are you familiar with Les Grossman?
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Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Lol. RI. C’mon, man. Russell M. Nelson didn’t give it that much thought, and you’re creating an Everest out of a mole hill. Russell M. Nelson made this story up and it falls apart under scrutiny. What are you doing asking those particular questions - where are you going with it?Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:30 amThank you very much for taking the time to give us the pilot’s eye view. One of the many things that has puzzled me about the landing in a field is why do it if one engine is operating? If the pilot had some reason to believe that the fire was not extinguished, is there any reason why he would follow the highway for a while and then land in a field? Wouldn’t he want to get the aircraft on the ground right away?
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