From the Archives: Scott Cho and "Loopholes"

[_Blixa]

Technically, the guard with the spear did not kill Jesus. He commanded his own spirit to God, so that would be a suicide.

Well, you're more than a believer than I am, then ; )

[_Scottcho]

Really? Then I guess I'll see you in the telestial kingdom.

[_ludwigm]

About faithful killing:
1. an old one

Cathars and Catharism in the Languedoc: Cathar Castles: Béziers

On 22 July 1209 the Crusader army arrived at Béziers on the periphery of the area in the Languedoc where Cathars flourished. There were believed to be around 200 Cathars in the town among a much greater population of sympathetic Catholics. The townspeople, believing their city walls impregnable, were careless, and the town was overrun while the leading Crusader nobles were still planning their siege.

The crusading army sacked and looted the town indiscriminately, while townspeople retreated to the sanctuary of the churches. The Cistercian abbot-commander, Arnaud Amaury, was reported by a fellow Cistercian to have been asked how to tell Cathar from Catholic. His reply demonstrated his faith: "Kill them all - the Lord will recognise His own". The Roman Church has recently taken to disowning these words, but they are reliable. Not only were they recorded by a sympathetic fellow churchman, but they also accord with other sources.

2. a new one (and yes, I am nasty, hehe):
Please tell me, how can the Lord influence the prophetic succession? What could He do with the inadequate ones? Should He kill them?
Or is it all the same?

[_truth dancer]

Here is the way I see it.

God and his wives created something like 100 billion spirits. (Approximately 60 billion who have lived, another 30 billion how were cast out, and lets just say another 10 billion will be born before Christ returns).

OK, so of the 60 billion who made it here, about half made it past eight years of age. (For most of the history of humankind estimates seem to be around 50% infant mortality rate).

Of the thirty or so humans that live into adulthood, about 20 million will have ever actually joined the LDS church. Of these maybe five million have ever gone through the temple.

So, this whole plan of salvation is really about a handful of folks who get to "take the test".

Thirty billion are cast off into outer darkness. Thirty billion make it directly to the lower level of the CK. And the five or so million folks who go to the LDS temple are going to spend a very long time trying to do the work for everyone else? This little group of people is going to have to figure out to whom they should vicariously seal all those thirty thousand spirits, and do all the work for the other thirty billion souls who have never heard of Joseph Smith.

I know I do not know the mind of God but seriously it seems there could be a better way. ;-) Seems like a mighty involved plan for just the chosen handful to take a test.

:-)

~dancer~

[_Scottcho]

This discussion is taking an odd tangent. I'm not arguing the logical validity of the doctrine or the Mormon church. I'm simply arguing in the context of the Mormon doctrine and given that the doctrine specifically states that children killed before the age of accountability are given a direct access to the celestial kingdom, killing these children in the future may be better off than letting them take the test and fail. A second point is that the murderer who commits the murder is in fact making a greater sacrifice than Christ has in that Christ's suffering for the mankind was only temporary one, while the murderer who knows the truth of god and still goes against the plan of salvation by killing the children is condemning himself to outer darkness for all eternity.

[_truth dancer]

Yes, based on LDS beliefs it would be the kind thing to do to kill children before they reach eight years of age. They would be assured eternity in the CK, and so long as some members in the future seal the departed to someone they can make it to the CKHL.

But my observation is that parents do not want to disobey, or sacrifice their heavenly place for their children.

Unlike Abraham who was quite willing to kill his son so HE could be with God. (in my opinion, a true sacrifice from a parent would be to sacrifice one's personal place in eternity for the child, but what do I know). ;-)

~dancer~

[_Scottcho]

At the moment, I couldn't agree with you more. Though if the Mormon church is the true church, there must be an explanation as to why we shouldn't be killing children.

[_Some Schmo]

At the moment, I couldn't agree with you more. Though if the Mormon church is the true church, there must be an explanation as to why we shouldn't be killing children.

Well, dude, I'm as critical of the church as anyone, but I at least know what they would say to this: Thou shalt not kill; It's that simple. It's not up to you to determine whether the kid has a chance at the "test" or not.

I don't think that was your original point, however. The question is really whether kids killed for this purpose still get in on a technicality, isn't it?

[_Doctor Steuss]

At the moment, I couldn't agree with you more. Though if the Mormon church is the true church, there must be an explanation as to why we shouldn't be killing children.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say the explanation is because Mormons have been told not to(?)

I know that some would loooove it if the Mormons were running around killing babies, but unfortunately, those kooky Mormons don’t seem to want to cooperate.

Doctor Steuss
I don't kill the babies, I just eat them.

[_Some Schmo]

(in my opinion, a true sacrifice from a parent would be to sacrifice one's personal place in eternity for the child, but what do I know). ;-)

Hehe, no kidding. Personally, I'd be more interested in spending eternity (or just my time on Earth) with my kid than I would the dude that encouraged me to murder my kid. I'm a little kooky that way.