Did Joseph Smith marry for love?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Runtu... :-)

With Fanny Alger, there's no mention of a restoration of anything, no commandment, no angel with a drawn sword. Just Joseph falling in love.

I really do not like the excuse that Joseph Smith was just in "love" with this young girl so decided to marry her.

Lets say their is a 37 year old married, with a few children ages 15, 11, and 7, male teacher at your neighborhood high school. And lets say the community finds out he is screwing a sophomore girl on the track team at his school.

How many people are going to excuse his behavior because he claims he is in love with this young girl?

How many people will even remotely believe he is in love with her?

Any thirty something year old man who claims to be in love with a sixteen year old has a serious, I mean serious problem.

The "I just love her, " excuse is not much better than the, "God said," excuse. Either way, a grown man taking sexual advantage of a young girl is disgusting and inexcusable.

(sigh).


~dancer~

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I stand by my comments.


The justification of Joseph Smiths adultery is the foundation of my disaffection towards the church.


Shame on those that call evil good and good evil.

I seek no sign. But if the Mormon God himself appeared to me and told me Joseph Smith was justified in betraying the sacred trust of his wife and the inocent of his flock, I would reject both of them.

I have stated before that If an angel claiming to have decended from the God of love with a flaming sword appeared to force my will toward adultery, I would fight and die with my honor and the sacred covenants I had made to my only bride.

The Mormon God would make a mockery of civilization, my moral compass, let alone human decency. The sacred bond of marriage is what it is.

I would prefer to make a nice place in hell than to spend eternity with the Mormon God of whoredoms.


But, truth be told, this is not the God or Jesus I ever thought I knew. But sometimes things aren't as they seem.

Please, for your own sake, do not read the Old Testament. If you think Joseph's being sealed to multiple wives is horrific to you, then I can't imagine what you might think of the biblical God who ordered the genocide of complete cities.

For that matter, you better stay away from the New Testament as well, what with God inpregnating a near 14-year old who was espoused to another man, and all that talk about eating flesh and drinking blood--which caused not a few of the disciples to reject Christ in disgust.

To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Since we're using the Old Testament to excuse polygamy, why isn't the Old Testament followed in other ways. I may be wrong, but it seems polygamy wasn't really a commandment, more of just a cultural norm in ancient times. However, the Old Testament clearly allows God's chosen to destroy unbelievers, just for the hell of it. You don't even need an excuse. Wouldn't this offer a blanket excuse for MMM? Since they didn't accept the true gospel, they should be executed. So why polygamy and not murder? And why does the church oppose a faithful priesthood holder from impregnating his 14 year old daughter, as ou suggest? It seems if we want to become god-like, that's the way to do it. But no, we are more "civilized" for those kinds of things today, except for polygamy. Why is it so important Old Testament bring back this one barbaric, ancient practice?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Any thirty something year old man who claims to be in love with a sixteen year old has a serious, I mean serious problem.

What about those of us who have a subsciption to "Barely Legal?"

[_truth dancer]

Hey Satanwassetup,

You are in lust, not in love! ;-)

~dancer~

[_Runtu]

Hi Runtu... :-)

I really do not like the excuse that Joseph Smith was just in "love" with this young girl so decided to marry her.

Lets say their is a 37 year old married, with a few children ages 15, 11, and 7, male teacher at your neighborhood high school. And lets say the community finds out he is screwing a sophomore girl on the track team at his school.

How many people are going to excuse his behavior because he claims he is in love with this young girl?

How many people will even remotely believe he is in love with her?

Any thirty something year old man who claims to be in love with a sixteen year old has a serious, I mean serious problem.

The "I just love her, " excuse is not much better than the, "God said," excuse. Either way, a grown man taking sexual advantage of a young girl is disgusting and inexcusable.

(sigh).


~dancer~

As I mentioned, I used the word "love" because that's the word Joseph used and also because it seemed less inflammatory than other words I could have used. I think if it were an "excuse," the apologists would make more use of it. As it is, you have people insisting Joseph was an unwilling participant who only practiced polygamy at the point of a sword wielded by an angel. The Fanny Alger story shows that this was simply not true.

I agree with you that he took advantage of a young girl (he was 27, and she was 16). I just figure let's call a spade a spade. He didn't do it out of some commandment. He did it because he was "in love." Read that however you wish.

[_Jason Bourne]

..According the the Bible GOd forgave him of these sins. He could forgive Jospeh too. I hope he does if Joseph really repented of plural marriage like William Marks claims he did just before Joseph was murdered.

Jason, where can you go with this? Look at the horrific damage path. This was not a white lie. If plural marriage was evil and necessitated his repentance, look at what you are implying:

Did you read what I said? Do you not want God to forgive and have mercy on someone who repents? Personally I think plural marriage was evil and a mistake. I am not sure why Joseph Smith did it. I have thought many thoughts on this and have no solid conclusions. Was it sex, power etc? Was it a mistaken belief that God really wanted it this part of the Church? Was it dynastic based on family eternal sealings and so on but an error? I believe it was an error.

If you believe in Jesus Christ you are commanded by him to forgive in order to be forgiven. I am not sure why you are incredulous with what I said. If he really did repent of it I hope God forgives him.

As a predator, he raped the virginity from our ancestor's daughters. He stole the virtue of married women and destroyed their homes. He betrayed the sacred trust of his only legal wife. He destroyed the honor and peace of entire families and even communities.

I agree with you.

Many hearts died and continue to die, pierced with deep wounds - including my own.

I feel much of this as well.

[_Runtu]

I thought you made that clear as well. I just thought it might help to put the choice of marriage into greater context. I didn't put all of my thoughts to pen when considering marrying my girlfriend back then, but I think people may have gathered my motives and considerations by respectfully examining the whole of my life, particularly the life I lived at the time. I have no reason to think the same wouldn't prove useful when examining Joseph's decision to be sealed to Fanny.

But, that may just be me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I wholeheartedly agree. The context for Fanny is pretty simple: Joseph Smith had a habit of taking very young women into his home as hired help. Sooner or later, most of them ended up as his wives, some without the knowledge or consent of his wife. Fanny fits the pattern quite well. Either way, Joseph was not sealed to Fanny. No sealing power had been restored as of yet, and no command given to enter into polygamy. Joseph seems to have been a free-lance polygamist in this case.

[_harmony]

I wholeheartedly agree. The context for Fanny is pretty simple: Joseph Smith had a habit of taking very young women into his home as hired help. Sooner or later, most of them ended up as his wives, some without the knowledge or consent of his wife. Fanny fits the pattern quite well. Either way, Joseph was not sealed to Fanny. No sealing power had been restored as of yet, and no command given to enter into polygamy. Joseph seems to have been a free-lance polygamist in this case.

We need Nighthawke here, to straighten us all out. I'm sure she could come up with a plausible reason for Joseph's jumping the gun by several years with Fanny. Other than Joseph couldn't keep his hands to himself, of course.

[_Runtu]

We need Nighthawke here, to straighten us all out. I'm sure she could come up with a plausible reason for Joseph's jumping the gun by several years with Fanny. Other than Joseph couldn't keep his hands to himself, of course.

Forgive me, but I read something other than "hands" just now.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Runtu... :-)

So, I guess you are using the term, "in love," rather than... "wanted sex"?

I have a difficult time with this because it completely disgraces and dehumanizes the idea of love. Rape of a girl, has nothing, NOTHING to do with love.

I wholeheartedly agree. The context for Fanny is pretty simple: Joseph Smith had a habit of taking very young women into his home as hired help. Sooner or later, most of them ended up as his wives, some without the knowledge or consent of his wife. Fanny fits the pattern quite well. Either way, Joseph was not sealed to Fanny. No sealing power had been restored as of yet, and no command given to enter into polygamy. Joseph seems to have been a free-lance polygamist in this case.

OK, so should we now start calling all rapists, sexual predators, men who screw young girls, and men who coerce married women to be with him.... "free-lance polygamists"?

If a grown married man coerced your daughter into sex would you excuse it as, "free lance polygamy"?

I know you are trying to be polite, (smile), but why give all the excuses to this man, when CLEARLY, no other man on the face of the planet would get such a free pass with all the accompanying excuses and justifications?

All the reasons, all the rationalizations, all the theories in the world do not take away from the facts regarding what Joseph Smith did indeed do.

I've worked with dozens and dozens of girls who have been raped. There is just plain NO excuse for this...and I do not think it does any good to downplay or minimize the reality of the situation.

I may be uncharitable when it comes to men sexually harming young girls... so be it.

~dancer~