DCP Gets Reamed by GoodK

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_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

I had quit following this thread on MDB. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Rather than going for a point by point along with commentary, just this.

Scratch wrote:Well, it certainly is. They (I.e., Lloyd and DCP) continue to insist upon the efficacy of the term. They refuse to utilize more accurate terms. They continue to want to have it both ways.


Yes, that's just it. And had it simply been left at that, I would have considered it just a blind spot in judgment. But since Dr. Peterson, astonishingly, made the argument that unlike other terms, Mormon carries a wide definition covering just about everything about the church one can think of, anti-Mormon activity then covers everything from criticism of temple architecture to beatings. Am I wrong this far? If so, where?

Given the succinct knowledge the apologists have that the word covers such a broad range of phenomena in contrast to other words which cover only narrow instances, yet at the same time pushing for the word's validity based on the generic definitional merits of "anti" (e.g., anti-bacterial soap), and failure to further categorize to alleviate any association of critic of ideas with critic of persons or attacker of persons must be by design.

Sure, I can see why he doesn't want to just throw around the word "anti-Mormon". Look at those guys at work who open their mouths up an nothing but profanity comes out, it loses its punch quickly and their words are powerless. Contrast that with someone who carefully picks those times to issue forth a "F***", and who will get some real mileage out of it. By just throwing the word around, the carefully germinated polemic that lumps cautious critics and enraged mobs all together in the same basket will lose its punch.
_GoodK

Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _GoodK »

harmony wrote:
GoodK wrote:Just thought I'd share a piece of knowledge with you all, something some of you might appreciate:

[GoodK] 6:15 pm: I should have said that last time DCP came out to California he had his "assistant" .....
[Bond...James Bond] 6:15 pm: yeah...they protect him like he's Caesar and they're the Praetorian
Guards
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: wait? he has an assistant?
[GoodK] 6:16 pm: lol yes!
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: OMG! please post about that on the board...that's rich.
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: my dog is looking at me I'm laughing so hard
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: that's too funny
[GoodK] 6:16 pm: I almost did over there, but it would have gave me away I think


What exactly do you mean by "assistant"? At one extreme, that could mean he had an iPOD; at the other, that he had a young comely female accompanying him. Care to clarify?


Yes. I spoke with his Ipod on the phone. Actually, I think it was an Ipod touch.
_the road to hana
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Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _the road to hana »

harmony wrote:
GoodK wrote:Just thought I'd share a piece of knowledge with you all, something some of you might appreciate:

[GoodK] 6:15 pm: I should have said that last time DCP came out to California he had his "assistant" .....
[Bond...James Bond] 6:15 pm: yeah...they protect him like he's Caesar and they're the Praetorian
Guards
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: wait? he has an assistant?
[GoodK] 6:16 pm: lol yes!
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: OMG! please post about that on the board...that's rich.
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: my dog is looking at me I'm laughing so hard
[Bond...James Bond] 6:16 pm: that's too funny
[GoodK] 6:16 pm: I almost did over there, but it would have gave me away I think


What exactly do you mean by "assistant"? At one extreme, that could mean he had an iPOD; at the other, that he had a young comely female accompanying him. Care to clarify?


Secret Service, more likely.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
_harmony
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Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _harmony »

GoodK wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "assistant"? At one extreme, that could mean he had an iPOD; at the other, that he had a young comely female accompanying him. Care to clarify?


Yes. I spoke with his Ipod on the phone. Actually, I think it was an Ipod touch.


And what did this assistant/Ipod touch(?) have to say?
_Scottie
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Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _Scottie »

GoodK wrote:Yes. I spoke with his Ipod on the phone. Actually, I think it was an Ipod touch.


Oh come now. Even I give DCP more credit than that...
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_GoodK

Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _GoodK »

harmony wrote:
GoodK wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "assistant"? At one extreme, that could mean he had an iPOD; at the other, that he had a young comely female accompanying him. Care to clarify?


Yes. I spoke with his Ipod on the phone. Actually, I think it was an Ipod touch.


And what did this assistant/Ipod touch(?) have to say?



I'm not here to libel Dan's character. I admire that he didn't resort to the level of personal attacks that most people at MAD do. He did, however, accuse me of being silly and uninformed, and was dismissive and arrogant in most of his posts, so I had no problem having a little fun with him. But I would certainly have the conversation with him again. Enough said.
_harmony
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Re: Mormon Celebrities

Post by _harmony »

GoodK wrote:
harmony wrote:
GoodK wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "assistant"? At one extreme, that could mean he had an iPOD; at the other, that he had a young comely female accompanying him. Care to clarify?


Yes. I spoke with his Ipod on the phone. Actually, I think it was an Ipod touch.


And what did this assistant/Ipod touch(?) have to say?



I'm not here to libel Dan's character. I admire that he didn't resort to the level of personal attacks that most people at MAD do. He did, however, accuse me of being silly and uninformed, and was dismissive and arrogant in most of his posts, so I had no problem having a little fun with him. But I would certainly have the conversation with him again. Enough said.


I had no sense that he was doing something in any way shady. Not my intention to malign his character. although I doubt he would give me the same benefit of the doubt. And being dismissive and arrogant is his stock in trade. It's what he does best. Someone once tried to tell us he was just joking. There are those among us who know better.
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

Wait... did people need more evidence that DCP has his head up his ass?

Nope! It's just consistently entertaining to watch him thrash about trying to tread water in a whirlpool.

...the crazy cult apologist (if the word fits, right Danny boy?)
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

Dr. Peterson wrote, presumably in response to me,

It was merely intended to make the point that it's well within the range of common linguistic practice to use the term anti-Mormon (as I and many others do) to refer not merely to opposition to or hatred of Mormon people but, as well, to refer to opposition to something else qualified by the adjective Mormon. And what I had in mind was opposition, specifically, to the Mormon Church and/or to Mormon doctrine.

Nothing more. Nothing less.


I don't know what to say. He's making all my points for me. Anti-Provo temple architecture was just an extreme example to demonstrate the point. Of course, I understand very, very well that what he has in mind is lumping together both bigots and sincere critics alike under the same word. The word, in all it's power, is reserved for those who hit the radar of the FARMS hobby horse. I understand that.

To make it clear, once again, if I point out specific doctrines from the Torah are outdated in terms of modern understanding of science, I'm not necessarily anti-Semitic, but if I point out beliefs in the Book of Mormon are false, I'm an anti-Mormon. It's convenient. Where the design comes into play, is knowing the polemical upshot and running with it rather than finding another term for either critics or bigots.
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

Gadianton wrote:Dr. Peterson wrote, presumably in response to me,

It was merely intended to make the point that it's well within the range of common linguistic practice to use the term anti-Mormon (as I and many others do) to refer not merely to opposition to or hatred of Mormon people but, as well, to refer to opposition to something else qualified by the adjective Mormon. And what I had in mind was opposition, specifically, to the Mormon Church and/or to Mormon doctrine.

Nothing more. Nothing less.


I don't know what to say. He's making all my points for me. Anti-Provo temple architecture was just an extreme example to demonstrate the point. Of course, I understand very, very well that what he has in mind is lumping together both bigots and sincere critics alike under the same word. The word, in all it's power, is reserved for those who hit the radar of the FARMS hobby horse. I understand that.

To make it clear, once again, if I point out specific doctrines from the Torah are outdated in terms of modern understanding of science, I'm not necessarily anti-Semitic, but if I point out beliefs in the Book of Mormon are false, I'm an anti-Mormon. It's convenient. Where the design comes into play, is knowing the polemical upshot and running with it rather than finding another term for either critics or bigots.


It's worth saying, again, that calling someone an anti-mormon is the exact same type of conversational tactic as when evangelical's or other polemicists call Mormons cultists. DCP wrote one of his trademark "chloroform in print" articles on why the word cult shouldn't be used, yet he seems to argue against that same reasoning when you turn the tables and replace "cult" with "anti-mormon". All of a sudden "anti-mormon" is the same type of word liberal is and it doesn't matter if the word isn't clearly defined (and admittedly so). After finally getting back on MAD and reading the posts in that thread again, it's so painfully obvious that the great DCP cares nothing for intellectual honesty and the honor he could have salvaged by just admitting he was wrong and ammending his argument.
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