Split from Harmony's Thread, Who Needs To Know?

[_Scottie]

Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?

No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)

I see. So you are of the belief that abused LDS women who are married are only married because they kept their abuse a secret? Interesting theory.

That's not my theory. I shouldn't have written that. The stats show that 1 out of 4 women have been sexually abused. Utah actually has a much higher rape occurrence than the national average. I think in the LDS culture it may very well be that many women don't talk about it. Look back to what is occurring with Harmony's daughter. Harmony herself didn't tell her husband for years and years. Did her husband know? No? Is she scarred? She says she has personality traits and hang ups... yet, her husband didn't have a clue apparently!

This is a good point. If you have personality traits and hang ups, those are going to come out regardless of whether you tell your spouse about the abuse or not. So, if he loves her for her without knowing, then great!

Do you think there is any plausibility to my scenario where a girl is dumped, but no real reason is given (which happens often), and she automatically assumes it is because of her abuse? Even though it was simply because the guy hooked up with the hot sister in his new singles ward (or whatever the case may be)? Can you honestly tell me that a guy would be stupid enough tell a girl why he is breaking up with her, regardless of the reason?? No, it most likely will turn into the "it's not you, it's me" or "this just isn't working out" talk.

Unfortunately, just like the licked cupcake lesson, girls are conditioned to feel worthless much more than men are conditioned to look for a virgin wife. It is my belief that women self-judge themselves MUCH more harshly than men. So when a breakup occurs without a good reason, the girl, who is already self conscious about being "damaged goods", will automatically go there for the reason. She tells all of her friends that this is why. The friends then gossip. It because an epidemic in the church with no real foundation.

I think there are ALLL sorts of possibilities. I don't know particulars. I DO know that women in the LDS culture are taught to feel shamed about consensual sex and told that they should fight to the death rather than lose their chastity. They are taught that men don't want "licked cupcakes" or "used meat" -- this is FACT! If the Church didn't teach women that they are NO MORE than their sexual chastity to their potential future husbands maybe the women wouldn't jump to conclusions (if they ARE doing so).

I agree. These lessons and teachings are unforgivable in my opinion. They should be at the top of any list of "why is Mormonism dangerous".

Also the men are told to stay clear of converts -- I had a thread asking about this and this DID occur.

Apples and oranges....

But this happens on both sides of the coin. Women are just as reluctant to date a non-member as men. (ask me how I know...)

Urgh. I'm tired of this topic....

These are some sensitive subjects for which passions run deep.

[_beastie]

This board has put me in CULTURE shock!!!!

Remember, Mormons are a "peculiar people". ;)

[_Jersey Girl]

I've read most of the thread but I'm starting at the top so I can get to the part where Moniker is either going to PM Shades or kick verbal butt in public. At least I'm honest about it!

Moniker

(shades -- you prescribed issues to me that were NOT accurate and it put me into a full frickin tizzy mode!:)

What issues and where?

[_Jersey Girl]

Still trying to find the connection between cheaters and victims, but I'll make it before the end of the day.

That's just it. . . there is no correlation.

The only correlation is that there are some aspects of people that other people don't feel like dealing with. For example, if I was still single, I probably wouldn't date a girl who wore a cowboy hat, a bola tie, cowboy boots, and listened to country music all day.

Is there anything wrong with her? No. Is she "damaged goods?" No. Should I love her with Christlike love? Yes. I just don't think I'd want to deal with that in a life partner is all.

So what if you take a "life partner" and she changes her style to cowboy hat, a bolo (It's bolo, Mr. Spell Checker), cowboy boots and listens to country music all day?

You gonna bail on account of that?

Next question is going to Scottie along similar lines.

[_Moniker]

Oh, Jersey Girl... I just put an apology in my profile not more than 10 seconds ago and then I see this! Shades kept saying I was raped 'cause I had consensual sex while under the influence of LSD or ecstasy and the sort...

Through spazzing. ;P

[_Jersey Girl]

According to stats posted somewhere, 1 in 4 women were sexually abused.

Shouldn't there be a WHOLE lot more single women out there if LDS men were really as shallow as you're claiming??

How many single LDS women are there out there? Got stats?

I'd be willing to bet donuts to dollars that the WOMEN are the ones saying that the guys are dumping them SOLELY because they were abused/raped. I'm betting the guys don't tell them, "Well, you WERE abused/raped, therefore I see you as damaged goods and not worthy of a life with me."

You can bet anything you like, Scottie and still come up with no proof. The only story we have to work with here is that of harmony's daughter.

These women will take no accountability for the fact that they are suffering from a myriad of emotional problems (baggage, if you will) that is only a natural byproduct of these kinds of traumatic events. How can you women sit and call men shallow bastards because we don't want to put up with this kind of BS in a marriage???

"These women" and "you women", eh? Excuse me, poster boy for misogynyspeak..."these women" and "you women" are not a pile for you to poke at. So, here's my question. If these alleged "shallow bastards" are those who don't want to "put up with this kind of BS in a marriage" might you be so kind as to riddle me this? What if the woman is sexually abused DURING the marriage? Would the men who didn't want to "deal with this BS" prior to the marriage still be willing to deal with it DURING the marriage or would they bail and what is the darn difference??????

Or, perhaps it just wasn't working out for reasons that have NOTHING to do with the abuse. The guy dumps the girls and she says to herself, "It's because I was abused. I just know it!!!" Then goes on to further perpetuate the myth.

Now, I believe that there ARE men out there shallow enough to dump a girl solely on her virginal status. But they represent the vast minority of the men out there. Like I said, since 1 in 4 women have had some kind of abuse, and obviously MANY of these women are now married to good, upstanding LDS men, the idea that LDS men are rejecting women solely on this falls flat.

Uninsightful clod, do you not think that men can reject a woman WITHIN a marriage and maintain public appearances? How many of "these women" are hiding their abuse from their husbands?

(I know I promised Shades but the censor mode is on)

And who really gives a damn if the LDS man is "upstanding"? What the hell does that mean anyway? That the damaged goods is lucky to snag him?

Edited: I took out my bad word in favor of a lesser bad word. The spirit of Shades is guilt tripping me!

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh, Jersey Girl... I just put an apology in my profile not more than 10 seconds ago and then I see this! Shades kept saying I was raped 'cause I had consensual sex while under the influence of LSD or ecstasy and the sort...

Through spazzing. ;P

Oh. Okay. Maybe. I think. I don't want to know any more!

[_Moniker]

Oh, Jersey Girl... I just put an apology in my profile not more than 10 seconds ago and then I see this! Shades kept saying I was raped 'cause I had consensual sex while under the influence of LSD or ecstasy and the sort...

Through spazzing. ;P

Oh. Okay. Maybe. I think. I don't want to know any more!

If you can't handle it don't ask. Good! Grief!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3g5G0PFuXQ

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh, Jersey Girl... I just put an apology in my profile not more than 10 seconds ago and then I see this! Shades kept saying I was raped 'cause I had consensual sex while under the influence of LSD or ecstasy and the sort...

Through spazzing. ;P

Oh. Okay. Maybe. I think. I don't want to know any more!

If you can't handle it don't ask. Good! Grief!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3g5G0PFuXQ

What?

[_Scottie]

According to stats posted somewhere, 1 in 4 women were sexually abused.

Shouldn't there be a WHOLE lot more single women out there if LDS men were really as shallow as you're claiming??

How many single LDS women are there out there? Got stats?

No.

I'd be willing to bet donuts to dollars that the WOMEN are the ones saying that the guys are dumping them SOLELY because they were abused/raped. I'm betting the guys don't tell them, "Well, you WERE abused/raped, therefore I see you as damaged goods and not worthy of a life with me."

You can bet anything you like, Scottie and still come up with no proof. The only story we have to work with here is that of harmony's daughter.

We don't have "proof" of ANYTHING on this thread. The entire thing is pure speculation.

And, as for Harmony's daughter, all I know is what SHE says. I don't know what the men she dated have said. Perhaps she is correct in her assessment of why they aren't interested, perhaps not.

These women will take no accountability for the fact that they are suffering from a myriad of emotional problems (baggage, if you will) that is only a natural byproduct of these kinds of traumatic events. How can you women sit and call men shallow bastards because we don't want to put up with this kind of BS in a marriage???

"These women" and "you women", eh? Excuse me, poster boy for misogynyspeak..."these women" and "you women" are not a pile for you to poke at.

Ahh, but "these men" and "you men" -- which have been repeatedly trashed all throughout this thread -- are?? Nice double standard there.

So, here's my question. If these alleged "shallow bastards" are those who don't want to "put up with this kind of BS in a marriage" might you be so kind as to riddle me this? What if the woman is sexually abused DURING the marriage? Would the men who didn't want to "deal with this BS" prior to the marriage still be willing to deal with it DURING the marriage or would they bail and what is the darn difference??????

That's a good question. I suppose that any number of things can happen during a marriage that would change the dynamics drastically. Would YOU have married a paraplegic? What if your husband becomes paralyzed? I can tell you right now that I wouldn't be able to handle marrying a paraplegic. Call me shallow if you want. Now, if my wife were paralyzed after marriage, well, I would hope that I could find the strength to stand by her. Same with sexual abuse. If my wife were raped, I would hope that I could find the strength to support her.

We can't choose what happens after marriage. Each situation brings its own set of challenges.

I lost my faith and my ex couldn't find the strength to stand by me. She would have never married me if I had not been Mormon. This dynamic changed our relationship, and it ended in a divorce. Is she wrong?

Or, perhaps it just wasn't working out for reasons that have NOTHING to do with the abuse. The guy dumps the girls and she says to herself, "It's because I was abused. I just know it!!!" Then goes on to further perpetuate the myth.

Now, I believe that there ARE men out there shallow enough to dump a girl solely on her virginal status. But they represent the vast minority of the men out there. Like I said, since 1 in 4 women have had some kind of abuse, and obviously MANY of these women are now married to good, upstanding LDS men, the idea that LDS men are rejecting women solely on this falls flat.

Uninsightful clod, do you not think that men can reject a woman WITHIN a marriage and maintain public appearances? How many of "these women" are hiding their abuse from their husbands?

Boy, I'm glad you changed it from whatever the initial insult was! :)

That is an entirely plausible scenario as well. But the claim here is that LDS men are REJECTING these women. NOT that they are marrying them and then privately holding them in contempt and disgust.

And who really gives a damn if the LDS man is "upstanding"? What the hell does that mean anyway? That the damaged goods is lucky to snag him?

Apparently Harmony's daughter (along with MANY other LDS women whom I would love to date, but won't give me the time of day because of my religious beliefs) give a damn. That is tragic, really. There are SOOO many good men outside the LDS church.