BC's View of LDS Doctrine -- Is It Doctrine?

[_bcspace]

Where did I do that?

You conceded the Bible also demonstrates unreliable revelation here:

Such is evident in scripture too. Balaam for example. He had an even greater manifestation than the HG and he still went astray. There is Jonah. There are Peter and the rest of the disciples in Acts not immediately agreeing that Peter's revelation dictates the gospel should be preached to the Gentiles, etc.

In other words, we already know and understand that the prophets aren't perfect and don't need to be told that. It's a built in conception of our doctrine which is why you guys fail to gain much traction with it.

I see where the problem is. I did not mean to give you that impression. What is evident in scripture is that the prophets are fallible men. There is no evidence that their revelation is unreliable.

[_bcspace]

Is it LDS Doctrine that the Garden of Eden was located in the state of Missouri?

Yes.

Is it LDS Doctrine that the Flood of Noah was worldwide?

Yes.

Is it LDS Doctrine that the Hill Cumorah is located in the state of New York?

One of them, yes.

Is it LDS Dcctrine that the Lord God of the Book of Mormon is Anti-Polygamy?

Non God authorized plural marriage, yes.

Is it LDS Doctrine that the Book 'Mormon Doctrine' is LDS Doctrine?

Yes.

Is it LDS Doctrine that there will be Polygamy/Polygyny being practiced again in the ushering in of the millennium?

Not that I'm aware.

Is it LDS Doctrine that there will be more females than males in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom?

Not that I'm aware, though it logically fellows that if there's plural marriage, there will be more females.

Is it LDS Doctrine that there will be a lot of Polygamy/Polygyny being practiced in the Celestial Kingdom?

None that I know of. Certainly nothing that defines "alot"

Is it LDS Doctrine that there will be no Polyandry being practiced in the Celestial Kingdom?

There is none that I know stating yes or no.

Why don't you look these up in the official works of the Church?

[_harmony]

Although no one asked me, here's my take on Mormon doctrine:

Doctrine is whatever the church teaches today.

This is undoubtedly the most correct post on this thread.

[_ludwigm]

Although no one asked me, here's my take on Mormon doctrine:
Doctrine is whatever the church teaches today.

This is undoubtedly the most correct post on this thread.

There are cases when the members should know what does the church teach.

Sometimes the prophets themselves...

[_beastie]

I see where the problem is. I did not mean to give you that impression. What is evident in scripture is that the prophets are fallible men. There is no evidence that their revelation is unreliable.

Let’s see just what we’re dealing with. So you believe that God did, indeed, tell his followers to do the following things:

1- if a child curses his/her parents, execute that child (Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.)

2 -yet if a man beats his servant, but his servant doesn’t die, he doesn’t have to be punished. If the servant dies, he will be punished (but apparently not killed, like the cursing child) (Exodus 21: 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

3- people who don’t wash before going to the temple will die (Exodus 30: 20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord:
21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

4- Adulterers and homosexuals should be executed ( Lev 20: 10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death., 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

5- witches should be put to death (Lev20: 27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.)


This is just the tip of the iceberg, but it’s time for me to go to work. We also know God wants blasphemers killed, and he told his people to commit genocide, except they got to “take” the virgins for themselves.

So all this revelation is reliable? God actually ordered all these things?

[_truth dancer]

Yep Beastie...

ALL doctrine.

All of it.

Remember.... doctrine does not = truth.

;-)

Just because something is taught doesn't make it right, correct, or true.

BC, where is there an official statement stating that only that which is currently published by the church is considered doctrine? I think you are making this up. ;-) CFR

~dancer~

[_harmony]

I see where the problem is. I did not mean to give you that impression. What is evident in scripture is that the prophets are fallible men. There is no evidence that their revelation is unreliable.

Let’s see just what we’re dealing with. So you believe that God did, indeed, tell his followers to do the following things:

[snip]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but it’s time for me to go to work. We also know God wants blasphemers killed, and he told his people to commit genocide, except they got to “take” the virgins for themselves.

So all this revelation is reliable? God actually ordered all these things?

Well, men said God ordered these things, but I try to keep in mind that it was and is men who actually wrote the scriptures (whatever one believes is scriptures, whether it's Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc). And we all know that men have an agenda (usually political) and how reliable men are in getting things straight. Men actually did such a lousy job of it, God himself had to come and straighten at least some of it out. And then a couple of centuries later, another guy comes along and screws it up again.

[_antishock8]

Doctrine simply means "what is taught", more or less. LDS doctrines are whatever a Mormon teaches. It's all good, since they're all encouraged to search for truth. No LDS person has a lock on LDS doctrines, not even the prophets. There is a canon, there are codes, there are edicts, and there exists cultural norms. None of it means anything except:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true.

That's the only consistent doctrine of the Utah-based church. Outside of that, the Holy Spirit is a person's guide to what is and what isn't personally applicable. They're all cafeteria Mormons. All of them. To a last.

I would say the next most important doctrine is:

Pay your tithing. <-I'm not being facetious. I think that doctrine is almost universally accepted by Mormons. The Pay-Pray-Obey construct is probably the most consistently agreed upon doctrine in the Mormon church. That's about it as far as I can tell.

[_beastie]

From Numbers 31 – the Israelite were commanded by God to go after the Midianites. They killed all the males and:
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

So apparently the LORD was really mad that the Israelites had kept ALL the women alive, and not just the virgins. They took care of that, though.

Reliable revelation or not?

[_beastie]

Well, men said God ordered these things, but I try to keep in mind that it was and is men who actually wrote the scriptures (whatever one believes is scriptures, whether it's Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc). And we all know that men have an agenda (usually political) and how reliable men are in getting things straight. Men actually did such a lousy job of it, God himself had to come and straighten at least some of it out. And then a couple of centuries later, another guy comes along and screws it up again.

I think sensible people have to come up with some sort of reasoning like this to avoid worshiping an utter monster, because that's what the God of the Old Testament would be, otherwise. Personally, I used the "we believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctly to ignore this stuff.

But BC has asserted that there is NOTHING in the Bible to demonstrate that revelation is unreliable, so I want to know if he really means it.