Scottie wrote:Beastie, to take abman's side for a second...
If he has noticed a pattern that when he follows their counsel, he is more happy, doesn't it logically make sense that following more counsel would bring him more happiness? Regardless of their "expert" status, they are voicing something that resonates with Abman.
In a way, he is past blind faith. Has has seen how following the teachings of the LDS leaders brings him happiness. To go back to the Dr analogy, a Dr might tell you that smoking is bad. You can either believe that on blind faith and trust the Dr, or you can smoke for a while, find all the ill effects of smoking for yourself, and realize that the Dr knew best. Now when the Dr tells you exercising will make you feel better, you are more prone to believe it. It is not necessarily blind faith, it is trust in someone who has made your life happier in the past. Now, mind you, I'm not saying that LDS teachings will make everyone happier, but it seems to work for Abman.
To each of us, I say: whatever works for you. What works for Abman wouldn't necessarily work for Jason Bourne. What works for me won't necessarily work for Liz. So if Abman has weighed the cost vs the utility of this place and finds the cost is too high for the utility he gains, then when he makes his choice I wish him the best, no matter what that choice may be. As for me, I don't consider the people here as apostate; I consider them as friends. I don't understand the mindset that designates anyone who is not Mormon as either potential investigator or apostate. To me, they're either friends or potential friends.
guy sajer wrote:So, just because Jesus committed genocide, does that give his disciples the same license to commit genocide also?
One can only hope...........
Please say yes. Please say yes.
OK...I know this was said in asinine jest, but sometimes you really worry me. ;)
My sense of humor scares a lot of people. You're not alone.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
harmony wrote:I don't understand the mindset that designates anyone who is not Mormon as either potential investigator or apostate. To me, they're either friends or potential friends.
There are nuances in my thoughts which I haven't expressed (I'm not quite that black and white) but which I think are irrelavent to the core of my current thoughts: trying too hard to be "fair" to views which are contrary to God's commandments has brought me out of harmony with the rest of the faithful and I consider that to be a bad thing.
I'm not sure I'm planning on leaving (I had always planned on going quietly so this wasn't supposed to be a goodbye thred). I'm not sure I'm planning on anything other than to bring myself back in harmony with God's will.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:There are nuances in my thoughts which I haven't expressed (I'm not quite that black and white) but which I think are irrelavent to the core of my current thoughts: trying too hard to be "fair" to views which are contrary to God's commandments has brought me out of harmony with the rest of the faithful and I consider that to be a bad thing.
for what it's worth, I don't see this in you. From my perspective, you've tried to understand the position of others and adopted a more "live and let live" attitude. I don't see you as having adopted any attitudes that aren't in "harmony" with the gospel.
I'm not sure I'm planning on leaving (I had always planned on going quietly so this wasn't supposed to be a goodbye thred). I'm not sure I'm planning on anything other than to bring myself back in harmony with God's will.
I don't believe it's God's will that you stop trying to find common ground with others and try to be considerate and kind.
Runtu wrote:I don't believe it's God's will that you stop trying to find common ground with others and try to be considerate and kind.
Certainly you are right. However, I don't think I should compromise on God's stands on moral issues in the process.
As I said, I haven't seen any evidence for your compromising on God's stands on any issues.
I believe I have compromised it by wanting the government out of marriage entirely instead of having to debate whether or not we should allow gay marriage. I do not wish to allow gay marriage, but I think I should stop worrying about seccular justifications about fairness in supporting heterosexual marriage while not supporting homosexual marriage. If that makes me a bigot, so be it. I should fear God rather than man.
Of course, I'll be pleased to remain an anonymous coward while doing so since I'm never sure who'll be angered enough by that position to try and "punish" me for it.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:I believe I have compromised it by wanting the government out of marriage entirely instead of having to debate whether or not we should allow gay marriage. I do not wish to allow gay marriage, but I think I should stop worrying about seccular justifications about fairness in supporting heterosexual marriage while not supporting homosexual marriage. If that makes me a bigot, so be it. I should fear God rather than man.
I can't for the life of me see how your disagreement with the church on a policy/political matter makes you out of harmony with the gospel. I doubt very much that the church expects every member of the church to agree on this. If you went to your bishop and told him you disagreed, my guess is that you'd get a shrug of the shoulders. I think you're being way too sensitive about this. The bottom line is that you agree with the church on the fundamental issue (whether gays should have the right to marry) but disagree in policy. BFD.
Of course, I'll be pleased to remain an anonymous coward while doing so since I'm never sure who'll be angered enough by that position to try and "punish" me for it.
I think only exmos qualify as anonymous cowards, so you're safe.
"Who am I to think I know better than the prophets do about how the government should be?"
Seeing the stupidity that has come from some of these inspired guys... go with your own feelings. Then when you screw up at least it will be you and not some guy living off your money.
For all the 'inspiration' of 'prophets', we have not had warnings about the Hitlers of the world, just the 'support your leaders' garbage. Mormons, and most religions, toady to those in power. It is NOT a moral stand, it is financial. They will get in bed with anyone who has money. If they have money and a country, so much the better. Who cares if they are gassing and murdering thousands or millions if they give us special favors?