Racism and Mormonism

[_Droopy]

Droopy, you don't understand Mormon doctrine

No Ray, you simply have sacrificed you understanding of Mormon doctrine to the requirements of your own psychological and emotional baggage upon certain issues.

This is a standard theme within the context of personal apostasy in which one who has taken a bite from the fruit of the Tree of Life, looking around and noticing the jeering mockery coming from the cool, hip, smart, trendy people in the great and spacious building, feels himself ashamed; ashamed of Christ, ashamed of his convictions and beliefs, and ashamed of his association with others with those same convictions and beliefs.

You are now in the building with the cool, hip, smart, and trendy people (who are also, of course, those who are filled with compassion, tolerance, and the liberating concept of the postmodern relativity of all values) poking the always self consciously pious finger of scorn at the Saints and those who hold values and beliefs similar to them.

You've arrived Ray.

[_Ray A]

No Ray, you simply have sacrificed you understanding of Mormon doctrine to the requirements of your own psychological and emotional baggage upon certain issues.

This is a standard theme within the context of personal apostasy in which one who has taken a bite from the fruit of the Tree of Life, looking around and noticing the jeering mockery coming from the cool, hip, smart, trendy people in the great and spacious building, feels himself ashamed; ashamed of Christ, ashamed of his convictions and beliefs, and ashamed of his association with others with those dame convictions and beliefs.

You are now in the building with the cool, hip, smart, and trendy people (who are also, of course, those who are filled with compassion, tolerance, and the liberating concept of the postmodern relativity of all values) poking the always self consciously pious finger of scorn at the Saints and those who hold values and beliefs similar to them.

You've arrived Ray.

I got no problem with that, Droop. You're on the 8-ball.

God bless.

[_Droopy]

Loran, I think I now understand your vehemence towards all-things-socialist. Is it the conflict you see between the theological and the secular worlds?

Partially, yes.

The balance between the two simply requires too much faith on your part. So it becomes an uncompromising choice for you and your camp?

I'm not following you here.

Intelligent creative humankind, resolving imperfectly in Science-based secularism. OR, obedient-to-the-word-of-God, as understood by the Faith-based, approach to human problem solving??? For you it's the latter. Right?

For me it would be intelligent creative but fallen and severely limited humankind, resolving imperfectly, through a glass darkly; through faith, studying it out in our minds, and being obedient to the word of God, the "terrible questions" (the most important) of our existence as well as other human problems (important but of lesser importance) through intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, and the application of a specific kind of knowledge (science (but not secularism, as this is neither necessary nor really useful)).

However, I do hope you will honour the Democratic process and support Barack Obama and his efforts to remedy America's problems as best they can be. Centuries of corruption, deceitful persuasion and mismanagement will not be corrected in any short time...

Ah yes. The One is among us now, and he is going to undue centuries of corruption, mismanagement, and general nastiness. This is precisely why I voted against him and have serious reservations, intellectually and psychologically, about many of my fellow citizens who voted for him.

Quick question to you Droopy, and to others: In your opinion, is Obama's entry onto the world stage a sign that the Millenium is about to happen soon?

Their are numerous signs that the Millennium is "about to happen", and I think that Obama, while not a singular figure in that matrix of events and phenomena, is a major symptom of the very conditions that will eventually lead to the "ripeness" in iniquity that will exist generally upon the earth immediate prior to the Lord's second advent.

So, unfortunately, are most of the people Obama has spent most of his life associating with whom he had close relationships and effulgent praise - before his presidential ambitions materialized. Yes, his mentors, confidants, friends, and those who molded and shaped his worldview, ideology, and character are indeed some of the ugliest, most intemperate and disreputable human beings our own society has yet seen, even with the Sixties as the cultural baseline.

Which is another primary reason I didn't vote for him.

[_Ray A]

Droopy, much learning doth make thee mad.
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[_Roger Morrison]

Droopy, thanks for your responses. Some of which I'll respond to:

Quote:
The balance between the two simply requires too much faith on your part. So it becomes an uncompromising choice for you and your camp?


I'm not following you here.

"Balance" was/is one of the salient points of both of our previous posts. You thinking it (balance) impossible. Me thinking it is, and is working in other countries. Canada being one of them. What I was/am suggesting, is there must be "faith" in any process to apply it. One does not hopelessly engage anything. So, I was suggesting you simply don't have the "faith" in socialistic principles to accomodate a practical "balance".

Quote:
Intelligent creative humankind, resolving imperfectly in Science-based secularism. OR, obedient-to-the-word-of-God, as understood by the Faith-based, approach to human problem solving??? For you it's the latter. Right?


For me it would be intelligent creative but fallen (rising) and severely limited humankind, resolving imperfectly, through a glass darkly; (a clearing glass) through faith, studying it out in our minds, and being obedient to the word of God, (to the laws of science) the "terrible questions" (the most important) of our existence as well as other human problems (important but of lesser importance) through intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, and the application of a specific kind of knowledge (science (but not secularism, as this is neither necessary nor really useful)).
I think "secularism" has inherited a bad-wrap. It is not evil. It is simply not ecclesiastical, nor bound by monastic vows. Maybe this is another place where "balance" allows contemporary coexistance??? (RM in blue)

With negotiations we might come to some balanced agreement ;-)

Quote:
However, I do hope you will honour the Democratic process and support Barack Obama and his efforts to remedy America's problems as best they can be. Centuries of corruption, deceitful persuasion and mismanagement will not be corrected in any short time...


Ah yes. The One is among us now, and he is going to undue centuries of corruption, mismanagement, and general nastiness. This is precisely why I voted against him and have serious reservations, intellectually and psychologically, about many of my fellow citizens who voted for him.

Does your above comment mean you will not "honour and support" government efforts to remedy America's problems? That you voted against him because you "precisely"--what? You are not clear. Can you be more specific? And, that you seriously question the intelligence & sanity of those "who voted for him"?? "Seriously" Loran, why?

Their are numerous signs that the Millennium is "about to happen", and I think that Obama, while not a singular figure in that matrix of events and phenomena, is a major symptom of the very conditions that will eventually lead to the "ripeness" in iniquity that will exist generally upon the earth immediate prior to the Lord's second advent.

Am I to understand that the "Millennium" is destined? That McCain would also simply guide us into the inevitable? Can "ripeness" not be stayed? Just how is Obama a "major symptom"?

So, unfortunately, are most of the people Obama has spent most of his life associating with whom he had close relationships and effulgent praise - before his presidential ambitions materialized. Yes, his mentors, confidants, friends, and those who molded and shaped his worldview, ideology, and character are indeed some of the ugliest, most intemperate and disreputable human beings our own society has yet seen, even with the Sixties as the cultural baseline.

Am I to assume you include his maternal Grandparents in that list?

It is hardly debateable that childhood influences shape the character, confidence and temperment, to a greater than lessor degree, of adults in their varying degrees of function/dysfunction. 'Tis why the home is the best place in which to invest effort. It appears to me that Obama had much good-stuff invested in him by those caring loving Grandparents. All should be so blessed, IMSCO.

I guess we will just have to hope that the better functioning among us will support his Presidential attempts to govern wisely...

Roger