"Live by the lamp of their own conceit"

[_Daniel Peterson]

Are you saying Daniel emulates the Brethren? Because at least he's here. He may not hear what is said, nor give it any thought, but at least he's here, in the trenches, with the rank and file. That's more than can be said for the Brethren.

I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, but, really, I just love the notion that the Brethren are to be faulted because they don't spend many hours a day on message boards.

And, for that matter, the notion that the rank-and-file of the Church do.

How many message board addicts does it take to screw in a light bulb? One. And s/he just stands there, while the entire world revolves around him/her.

[_harmony]

Are you saying Daniel emulates the Brethren? Because at least he's here. He may not hear what is said, nor give it any thought, but at least he's here, in the trenches, with the rank and file. That's more than can be said for the Brethren.

I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, but, really, I just love the notion that the Brethren are to be faulted because they don't spend many hours a day on message boards.

And, for that matter, the notion that the rank-and-file of the Church do.

How many message board addicts does it take to screw in a light bulb? One. And s/he just stands there, while the entire world revolves around him/her.

It was just an example of a method by which information could be exchanged, should the parties involved wish information to actually be exchanged. It is by no means, the only method by which the Brethren could gain some insight into the minds of the rank and file.

Good grief, for all your degrees, sometimes you just don't see the big picture, do you?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Are you saying Daniel emulates the Brethren? Because at least he's here. He may not hear what is said, nor give it any thought, but at least he's here, in the trenches, with the rank and file. That's more than can be said for the Brethren.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in Dan's statement to you.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Here are some other things for which I feel no remorse: the sinking of Atlantis, the transformation of Daphne into a laurel tree, the tragic story of of Pyramis and Thisbe, the death of Baldur, the murder of Osiris, and the Götterdämmerung.

I'm simply interested in the consequences of your actions; ergo, the reason I pointed out the GoodK debacle but not the sinking of Atlantis, et al.

[_Lamanite]

...

I've got a buddy pass on Delta you can use. If you're back East it will cost you/me $100 round trip, I'd be happy to pay. I'm sure you can stay with Scottie or John W, or if you prefer the company of a Mormon you can stay with Life on a Plate. You could stay with me and my wife and kids but I've said some scary things lately and I just assumed you'd be more comfortable elsewhere. But we do have a guest room if you want.

Trust me. Just tell me the name of the Apostle and I can get you an appointment. It would probably be best to write a list of grievances first so that there is an agenda going into the appointment. See, the problem is you assumed that they are not available to schmucks like me and you. But in reality they love the Saints and bottom line is, I can get you the appointment. I put that on my Wife.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Daniel Peterson]

I'm simply interested in the consequences of your actions; ergo, the reason I pointed out the GoodK debacle but not the sinking of Atlantis, et al.

So am I. That's why I mentioned the sinking of Atlantis, etc.

[_harmony]

Trust me. Just tell me the name of the Apostle and I can get you an appointment. It would probably be best to write a list of grievances first so that there is an agenda going into the appointment. See, the problem is you assumed that they are not available to schmucks like me and you. But in reality they love the Saints and bottom line is, I can get you the appointment. I put that on my Wife.

Big UP!

Lamanite

I didn't say they didn't love the Saints. You and Daniel have some problems with reading what I wrote? I said they aren't listening, and there is no mechanism by which the rank and file can access them.

Your idea is backwards, Lamanite. The idea isn't that I or any other rank and file member should go on bended knee to them, asking for crumbs (and an appointment for a private audience). The idea is that they should come to us, asking for our input. I'm saying there should be a mechanism by which rank and file members can give input into the workings of the church at the highest level, without fear of retribution and with the knowledge that someone at the top of the food chain is listening. And the way we'd know they were listening was because we'd see change.

We shouldn't have to wait for the NCAA to refuse to play college sports with BYU in order for us to see change. We shouldn't have to wait for the federal government to take away the church's assets in order for us to see change. How do the Brethren know what to ask God, if they don't know what issues are pressing on the Saints? And how can they know what those issues are, if they don't have a mechanism through which the rank and file can honestly give their concerns? The current method of the member telling their bishop, who tells their stake president, who tells the Area Authority, who tells someone in SLCentral, who tells a GA, who tells the Prophet is like the childhood game of "Gossip": ineffective and vulnerable to breakdown at every intersect, if the concerns ever get past the bishop.

The other alternative of going to the press is suicide.

Maybe you could ask a few of the members (who are now ex-members) what happens when a rank and file member requests a private audience with one of the Brethren.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in Dan's statement to you.

If you spend much time with Rollo, he'll also point out the Martian canals and the home where Zorro used to live.

He's really into that kind of stuff.

But my viciousness toward GoodK's family is what really floats his boat.

By the way, here's a picture of me (I'm on the right) discussing GoodK with his stepdad:

[_Ray A]

By the way, here's a picture of me (I'm on the right) discussing GoodK with his stepdad:

Next time clean your teeth.

[Guest]

I said they aren't listening, and there is no mechanism by which the rank and file can access them.

And I've said that you're wrong.

The idea isn't that I or any other rank and file member should go on bended knee to them, asking for crumbs (and an appointment for a private audience).

"Going on bended knee, asking for crumbs," is evidently harmonic for dialing them up, going for a meeting with one of them (either in Salt Lake City or somewhere else around the world), or dropping them a letter.

The idea is that they should come to us, asking for our input.

You see, in harmonology, the Brethren never get out into the world to visit any of the wards and stakes and have utterly no contact with ordinary members of the Church.

I'm saying there should be a mechanism by which rank and file members can give input into the workings of the church at the highest level, without fear of retribution and with the knowledge that someone at the top of the food chain is listening.

The telephone and the U.S. Postal Service haven't yet reached harmony's section of North America. But they say that electricity should be there by mid-summer 2009, so there's hope.

And the way we'd know they were listening was because we'd see change.

When harmony's demands have been met, and only then, we'll know that the Brethren are listening to the rank-and-file members of the Church -- among whom, rather oddly from my point of view, harmony evidently counts herself. Her demands are their demands. Her will is their will. L’Église c’est harmonie.