"I'm Drinking My First Coffee Tonight"

[_Droopy]

The sheer tortured tendentiousness of this thread utterly astounds.

Coffee and Tea, whatever else can be said about these non-foods, are addictive; they contain Caffeine, which is a mild stimulant that creates dependency, tolerance, and withdrawal, all the primary signs of an addiction syndrome, albeit a fairly mild one (although I've known some people who had one hell of a time getting of cola drinks, as well as Coffee and Tea).

The spirit and mind are to be in control of, and ideally, have mastery over the body, not vice versa. When the body has control or is in ascendancy over our spirit intelligence, we are then more acutely connected to the world and worldly things to the point that their demands for our attention and focus pull us away from our focus on Christ. Addictive agents, such as Caffeine, alcohol, and other consciousness altering drugs, create powerful, acute cravings and desires that make detachment from them even more difficult then under normal circumstances. We therefore enter into covenant relationships with God to avoid those things that link us to and focus us upon carnal, sensate, and worldly things to the ultimate detriment of our overall spiritual progression.

The health issues, in contrast to this, are distinctly secondary.

Pretty difficult to understand, huh?

[_Jason Bourne]

Fine then. I'm going to back off on the claim that BY made the WoW a commandment. However, the minutes of the 1852 Conference still stand, unless someone can source a plausible reason why they should be discounted as legitimate (Jason's bare assertion does not qualify as a plausible reason). The Saints, unitedly in conference accepting the WoW as binding doctrinally would be, indeed, the equivalent of the canonization of the concept (this is how we sustain the ministerial authority of our leaders several times during the year).

All I was saying is the history of its application and its becoming binding on the saints is not cut and dry. You now agree. Thank you.

But most members think from the day Joseph Smith received the WOW that it was applied as it is today.

What is interesting though is the process by which it became binding. If God wanted it so binding why did it take so long to become so.

And honestly Droopy, don't you really think some cultural absurdities result from the WOW. I mean really, worrying about going to hell or not being in the CK because of a cup of coffee? The God of this Universe worried over coffee or tea or even a glass of wine here or there?

By the way I keep the word of wisdom and plan on continuing. And not just the don't but the do's as well.

Another absurdity that comes from it is the Saints are so proud about the avoidance of various substances but many of us are way to heavy and eat way too much.

Maybe that should keep someone out of the temple. Being 30 pounds over weight is far more abusive of ones temple of the spirit than is a glass of wine here and there.

[_Droopy]

But most members think from the day Joseph Smith received the WOW that it was applied as it is today.

Well, then we can agree at this point that this is not the case. OK. However, when counsel comes from the Lord, the demarcation line between counsel and doctrine; between the degree of observance one applies to the concepts, becomes finely honed at the outset, don't you think?

What is interesting though is the process by which it became binding. If God wanted it so binding why did it take so long to become so.

I don't know, ask him.

And honestly Droopy, don't you really think some cultural absurdities result from the WOW. I mean really, worrying about going to hell or not being in the CK because of a cup of coffee? The God of this Universe worried over coffee or tea or even a glass of wine here or there?

There is no doctrine in the Church about anyone going to Hell bacuse of drinking coffee or liquor. Come on Jason...please.

We will be damned if we do not live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God; stopped in our progression at some point if we will not obey the Lord in all things he reveals to us, but Hell has relation to Telestial wickedness, not drinking coffee.

Another absurdity that comes from it is the Saints are so proud about the avoidance of various substances but many of us are way to heavy and eat way too much.

Yes, this is true, and this has to do with the positive assertions of the concept regarding diet. However, I don't place problems with these on the same level as indulgence in the addictive substances that provide both the spirit and letter of its prohibitions.

Maybe that should keep someone out of the temple. Being 30 pounds over weight is far more abusive of ones temple of the spirit than is a glass of wine here and there.

Being thirty pounds overweight abuse? This sounds like trendy junk science to me, but regardless, there is no present covenant relationship with God regarding being overweight, and this no doubt results, at least partially, from the fact that many problems with weight are genetically determined as much as they have to do with choice of food items. As with my own wife, it is not gluttony, but a constant battle with one's own metabolism.

There is a covenant relationship regarding alcohol, and that is the salient point.

Criticisms of the WoW grounded in an assumption that the fundamental concern of the WoW is physical health or longevity miss the real point of the WoW entirely.









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[_Ray A]

There is no doctrine in the Church about anyone going to Hell bacuse of drinking coffee or liquor. Come on Jason...please.

We will be damned if we do not live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God; stopped in our progression at some point if we will not obey the Lord in all things he reveals to us, but Hell has relation to Telestial wickedness, not drinking coffee.

Don't torment yourself so much. Relax.
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[Anonymous]

I have a family member that served a mission in Brazil. It was pretty funny that they allowed the missionaries to drink the highly caffeinated beverage Guaraná but Coca Cola was verboten.

http://www.maria-brazil.org/guarana.htm


It's interesting that there is so much emphasis in Mormon culture on tea/coffee/wine as a "commandment" when most of section 89 commands a vegetarian diet. I've observed a strong resistance by fellow LDS when I point out the section on eating meat sparingly/ only in times of famine. Why are those verses not taken as a commandment if coffee is? Try to mention verses 12 & 13 in your next Word of Wisdom lesson at church and see the response you'll get.
http://scriptures.LDS.org/dc/89

[_harmony]

I've observed a strong resistance by fellow LDS when I point out the section on eating meat sparingly/ only in times of famine. Why are those verses not taken as a commandment if coffee is?

Maybe because the church owns the biggest cattle ranch in the country, if not the world?

[_Jersey Girl]

Could someone post the WoW here so we can take a gander at it? I didn't see it posted on the thread.

[_Ray A]

Could someone post the WoW here so we can take a gander at it? I didn't see it posted on the thread.

It was posted in Seven's post, but here it is:

http://scriptures.LDS.org/dc/89

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF Jesus Christ OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.



1 A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

[_Droopy]

It's interesting that there is so much emphasis in Mormon culture on tea/coffee/wine as a "commandment" when most of section 89 seems commands a vegetarian diet. I've observed a strong resistance by fellow LDS when I point out the section on eating meat sparingly/ only in times of famine. Why are those verses not taken as a commandment if coffee is? Try to mention verses 12 & 13 in your next Word of Wisdom lesson at church and see the response you'll get.

Perhaps, at some future point, we will be "under the law" to that aspect of it, just as the prohibitions of addictive substances was once counsel, but became commandment.

Again, however, seeing the WoW in a pharisitical manner, as a ledger of do's and don'ts and playing them off against one another in a hair splitting exercise misses the greater point of the WoW and obedience to it.

[_harmony]

I'm digging English Breakfast tea or Irish Breakfast tea, with the obligatory milk.

I prefer mine with lemon and honey.

And for Droopy: prescribed by my LDS physician and mandated by my bishop, to keep my gastric system under control, due to drug interaction (of the ones that keep me alive). I sip a cup with every meal, and at least one more before bed at night. My system allows nothing less.