RfM--why it's a useless site. (Simon will love this!)

[_Buffalo]

Let us not forget, there is plenty of anger and venting happening here. There is also some venting and anger occuring at MDD and many other internet joints. I'm not trying to vindicate RfM, but if its negative there, you can't say its not negative here too. matter of degree? maybe. But if its unhealthy to vent, as has been discussed, then why would anyone overlook it here but be concerned about it over there?

Here the venting is done in the course of actual debate. People are making arguments and defending them, not merely blowing off steam.

[_asbestosman]

But if its unhealthy to vent, as has been discussed, then why would anyone overlook it here but be concerned about it over there?

Here venting is not the purpose of the board. We allow all sides to have a say with relatively minimal moderation. Now I could be misremembering, but I believe some have said the RfM is great because it lets people vent. I think venting happens here, but it isn't protected from being challenged.

[_stemelbow]

Here the venting is done in the course of actual debate. People are making arguments and defending them, not merely blowing off steam.

I wished if it left to how to describe it.

[_stemelbow]

Here venting is not the purpose of the board. We allow all sides to have a say with relatively minimal moderation. Now I could be misremembering, but I believe some have said the RfM is great because it lets people vent. I think venting happens here, but it isn't protected from being challenged.

So its not the venting per se, its that venting is going on unabated? I don't know if that accurately, or neatly, describes RfM or this place. Ah well...I get your overall point so I won't harp too much. I just find it worth mentioning that in a lot of ways this place and that aren't all that dissimilar, and venting may be one similarity.

[_angsty]

And yet I am an inactive member of the LDS church. But I also have chosen the life I chose to live. Should I blame the LDS church? Should I vent anger and bitterness if I can't go into the temple? Should I have bitterness inside me? I don't think so.

I gather that you have had a very different experience than those who seek support at RfM. You don't seem to relate to or understand that crowd. That being the case, you probably shouldn't jump to conclusions about their motives or experiences based on what you would think, feel, or do if you were in their shoes. So RfM doesn't meet your needs or suit your style. That's fine. It does fill needs for other people who feel deeply, have experienced great loss as a result of their disaffection, and have had to deal with difficulties that don't seem to resonate with you.

I was raised in the church, and because I actively fulfilled all my church responsibilities and lived obediently, much of my time was occupied in church service, fellowship and related concerns (prayer, scripture study, preparation for callings, etc.). My life was designed by the beliefs I held as a church member. Leaving the church was a dramatic change in many ways. My relationships, social life, intellectual life, recreational life, personal and professional goals changed radically as I left the church. It wasn't just one cut-and-dry decision, it was many, many tough decisions.

You see bitterness, anger and blaming. I see people going through a huge transition, reaching out for support, as they navigate the changes and challenges that come with leaving the church.

I made my own choices. As you have done. Here is the point: it would not matter if you and your wife were devout catholics and you chose to leave the catholic church. Your wife would be devastated and your marriage would be in trouble. However, in the catholic faith, divorce is frowned upon and so, maybe your wife would stay married but unhappily. That is the way it is when one breaks the deal. There is disappointment. It is not only a Mormon thing.

1.) Did I post something that indicated that I think only Mormons can experience problems when one partner in a marriage leaves the faith? I'm pretty sure I didn't. However, to your point (however tangential the relationship is to mine), Mormonism has distinct elements, cultural and doctrinal, that create different challenges for people leaving it versus other faiths and organizations. I'm not saying it's more difficult for ex-Mormons, I'm saying that a support network specific to the issues of leaving the Mormon church has proven helpful for many people.

2.) Hmm. My marriage isn't a "deal". It's a relationship that has evolved over time and continues to do so. It would totally suck to be married to someone who cared more about my religious convictions than me as a person. I'm glad my husband never subscribed to that view-- even when I lost my testimony.

[_Morley]

Here the venting is done in the course of actual debate. People are making arguments and defending them, not merely blowing off steam.

I wished if it left to how to describe it.

Huh?

[_Themis]

So its not the venting per se, its that venting is going on unabated? I don't know if that accurately, or neatly, describes RfM or this place. Ah well...I get your overall point so I won't harp too much. I just find it worth mentioning that in a lot of ways this place and that aren't all that dissimilar, and venting may be one similarity.

Didn't you already admit that venting is going on over at MDD? Venting then seems a similarity to all boards regardless the topic. Maybe people like to vent. Do you think you have done some venting here?

[_DarkHelmet]

And lets be honest here. Daughters and sons can have a ring ceremony after the wedding in the park under a beautiful blue sky and warm sun. And it can be just as meaningful for the parent or relative.

Ring ceremonies would be great except the church feels they have to dictate how the ring ceremony is conducted. Heaven forbid the parents actually plan a ring ceremony that is better than the temple ceremony. A bishop once informed a friend that the ring ceremony has to be boring and crappy to encourage friends and family to become worthy to see the awesome temple ceremony. LOL.

[_angsty]

And lets be honest here. Daughters and sons can have a ring ceremony after the wedding in the park under a beautiful blue sky and warm sun. And it can be just as meaningful for the parent or relative.

Ring ceremonies would be great except the church feels they have to dictate how the ring ceremony is conducted. Heaven forbid the parents actually plan a ring ceremony that is better than the temple ceremony. A bishop once informed a friend that the ring ceremony has to be boring and crappy to encourage friends and family to become worthy to see the awesome temple ceremony. LOL.

Exactly. I've been to several ring ceremonies as a believing and "worthy" Mormon and each ultimately became a tacky missionary opportunity in which "unworthy" and nonmember friends and family got to learn about the importance of the main event they missed out on. I was embarrassed even then. It's one painful thing to have a wedding that excludes certain family members on religious grounds. It's completely insensitive to offer a consolation prize that rubs it in their face.

[_angsty]

And lets be honest here. Daughters and sons can have a ring ceremony after the wedding in the park under a beautiful blue sky and warm sun. And it can be just as meaningful for the parent or relative.

Baloney. Mormons make a big deal about the temple, even in the ring ceremony. It is very clear that the most significant event of the day has been missed. Ring ceremony guidelines are designed to ensure that message is clear. My husband and I got married in the temple by ourselves with no guests rather than exclude only my non-member and inactive family members and friends precisely because while we wanted to maintain our principles, we couldn't bear to treat the people I love that badly (and where I'm from, that is ill treatment).

Most involved parents and relatives would feel that exclusion deeply. It may be an accepted norm within LDS cultures, with minimal offense intended or taken, but it is not normal elsewhere for parents and close family to be excluded from the biggest event in a person's life (so far) and a ring ceremony in which they get an introduction to the church does not make it all better.